NJ Posters .....

[Fozzy]

bump to the top

Okay, how about we leave all these company trolls to themselves. Just stop posting here. Untill this contract is done, this is the only type of post you will see from me. Give them nothing.

Stop posting, you are not helping.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Small companies always compare what they're offering to avoid losing their training costs and staff to large corporations. If NJA gets a big raise, the whole industry will benefit enormously!

Netjets has been accused of holding down GA salaries for years too, and unfortunately that's true too!

What is that supposed to mean? I don't work for a small company, I work for a large corporation, I am in a GA job and I make way over 100K. In what world is that underpaid? If NJA gets a big raise, how exactly do I (and my pilot friends) benefit?

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

bump to the top

Okay, how about we leave all these company trolls to themselves. Just stop posting here. Untill this contract is done, this is the only type of post you will see from me. Give them nothing.

Stop posting, you are not helping.

I was under the impression that you were all posting here to garner support from the rest of the industry. If that is not true, you SHOULD stop this line of posts.

Ace

 

[2000flyer]

2000Flyer, as you say, you are on the outside, so not really qualified to judge whether or not the majority of NJ pilots do believe they are helping the industry by fighting for professional treatment. The evidence of that assertion is seen in the frequency of posts on the ASAP board, expressing that opinion. While it isn't the primary motive of the majority, that doesn't mean it isn't stated as just one more reason that the pilots must stand their ground. The pilots are very unified and calls for the "greater good" are heard constantly.

NJwife...I am not qualified to judge? Why then, when I talk to NJ pilot's across the country, that not one, absolutely not one has said to me "we want a pay raise to benefit all pilots everywhere, not just at NetJets." It's a hollow argument at best. I have no doubt there are some that may feel that way but when it comes down to it, your husband (and you), and all the other pilot's are looking out for number one...themselves. That is not to say they don't care about other pilots and their QOL, but you are fighting for no one but you. Period.

Now, I'd agree 100% with your statement that the majority is for professional treatment. Professional treatment at your company, for sure. But are you going to sit there and tell me that you're concerned about the treatment of pilot's at Citation Shares, FlexJet or any other flight department. ?Do you honestly think that striking, jumping or screaming is going to make a difference? A year or two down the road when one of the other fractionals boasts the highest industry salary, are those at NetJets going to pat themselves on the back and high five down the halls because it was actually they who got someone else a raise? Hardly!

2000Flyer ... for clarification only .... "We - not the shiny airplanes - are the NJ product" - The "WE" was meant as rhetorical but - yes - referring to the pilots, as the owners do not interact with the dispatchers, mechanics, schedulers, flight managers or any of the other outstanding support folks we have working with us at Netjets. The pilot force is the face of Netjets, and it is getting a little tired and haggard looking. The rest of your post is opinion, to which you are certainly entitled. I will say however that I have never flown with a more outstanding group of folks than the pilots here at Netjets.

So, when an owner needs an airplane, they call the pilot's to schedule? When they order catering, they figure the pilot's placed the order and drove to pick it up? Because the plane flew safely from A to B, it was because the pilot's performed the maintenance?

True, when a customer arrives at the airport, it is the pilot they see. It is the pilot that flies that shiny jet from A to B. However, using that argument, is the bus driver the "face of Greyhound?"

As hard as it is to accept, you and I are a commodity. We're also replacable. That is NOT to say you and I don't deserve a fair and reasonable salary. I've said it a hundred times if I've said it once, the pilot's at NetJets deserve a raise. I can't be any clearer than that. Tell me you want a raise. Tell me you want to be treated as a professional. That, I can buy. But don't try to sell me the argument your doing it for everyone else. Delta doesn't negotiate a new contract to benefit Northwest. United doesn't want a raise for the benefit of American. They do it for themselves. You're doing it for you and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

2000Flyer

 

[gern_blanston]

help others earn more" in a given industry.

It's the typical union shop situation at work. They think a union helps them, but in reality it slows everything down. Marching around in circles, ranting and raving, and passing out "informational" leaflets to customers always makes management want to give their employees a raise as fast as possible, right ???

This is the first thing that I think of when I think of unions. This sums up my experience with the teamsters perfectly.

I just don't get your logic: If raising the salaries of thousands of pilots (us) didn't raise yours, why do you thing that raising yours will raise everyon elses?

This is a good question. If this theory really works, it should work both ways.

I have never held a job where I take a pay raise by saying, thinking, or feeling that I've personally helped all other segments salary issues. A byproduct of my salary may be a benefit for others but I have never asked for a pay raise "to help others earn more" in a given industry.

A lot of unioneers do talk this way, although I wonder if they were given the choice of a 45% raise for themselves, or a 25% raise for all pilots of similar machines, or all employees in their company - casino, dispatch, etc., which they'd choose.
Like many others voicing opinions here, I am an outsider looking in, but having lived through a teamster strike (which I voted against) I do have a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth at the mention of the words 'teamster' and 'union'.
It seems to me that this might be a bit different than the average strike, if it comes to that. Instead of nameless customers watching nameless employees picketing at some factory, it'd be more like me marching around the corporate hangar with a sign when my boss shows up for a flight. There is a difference, isn't there?
I guess all I can say is 'Good luck'. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

bump to the top

Okay, how about we leave all these company trolls to themselves. Just stop posting here. Untill this contract is done, this is the only type of post you will see from me. Give them nothing.

Stop posting, you are not helping.

Paranoia sets in...

the cockpits are bugged....the Rudys catering is poisioned....

Secret Society move undeground. Dont look at anyone, use secret handshakes and invisible ink.

 

[h25b]

Paranoia sets in...

the cockpits are bugged....the Rudys catering is poisioned....

Secret Society move undeground. Dont look at anyone, use secret handshakes and invisible ink.

I can only imagine what they use for the "secret handshake" ...

 

[netjetwife]

I beg to differ with you, 2000. There are pilots in leadership/volunteer positions who sacrifice much of their OWN personal time for the greater good. There are pilots who were personally satisfied with their OWN income, but voted against the failed (by 82%) TA. My husband and I frequently mention the fact that his efforts are in support of 2000 + pilots/families, NOT just our own. I know that he is not alone in that belief; it is shared by many who are giving up countless hours. The success of the bypass pay bid efforts (116 the first time, and even higher the second time) were ONLY possible because of pilots that were willing to consider the needs of others, instead of thinking of "number one."

I think the problem is one of degree. No one is saying that the "rising tide" idea is THE primary motivator. Rather, it is mentioned as another on a long list of good reasons to fight for what is right. As always, it is about more than money, but I think that you got the right idea from the phrase--professional treatment.

 

[2000flyer]

I beg to differ with you, 2000. My husband and I frequently mention the fact that his efforts are in support of 2000 + pilots/families, NOT just our own.

NetJetWife,

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you! You finally said it and I agree with you 100% You are doing it for all the pilots at NJ, of which your husband is one. Not for pilot's everywhere.

... No one is saying that the "rising tide" idea is THE primary motivator. Rather, it is mentioned as another on a long list of good reasons to fight for what is right. As always, it is about more than money, but I think that you got the right idea from the phrase--professional treatment.

I beg to differ. According to your esteemed collegue...

...Most of the NJA pilots are trying to fill the glass for everyone in aviation - not just themselves...

...it is shared by many who are giving up countless hours.

True, but again my point is they are giving up "countless hours" for the betterment of NJA PILOTS, not every pilot in all other walks of life.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[netjetwife]

Sorry to burst you bubble, 2000, but you are misconstruing what I'm trying to say. I said that it was all a matter of degree. Naturally, a pilot's first responsibility/concern is his/her family, next would come their fellow pilots in the union, and then in the industry. I think this is a logical order that would fit most of the NJ pilots. Those (definitely a minority) who are not financially pressured may well place a higher priority on raising the bar for other pilots. I know for a fact that there are pilots at NJ that fit that profile.

With over 2000 pilots, you are bound to see all of these viewpoints in varying degrees. I wouldn't assign, to the majority, the attitudes of the relative few which you have spoken to on the road. Nor would I assume that the pilots talking to you don't have other opinions that weren't shared at that time.

 

[FAcFriend]

Naturally, a pilot's first responsibility/concern is his/her family, next would come their fellow pilots in the union, and then in the industry. QUOTE]


Used to be God, Country and Corps. - now it is Family, Union, Industry.

 

[2000flyer]

Naturally, a pilot's first responsibility/concern is his/her family, next would come their fellow pilots in the union, and then in the industry. I think this is a logical order that would fit most of the NJ pilots.

Trust me when I say no bubble was burst here. This is an argument that will go 'round and 'round. If you want to stand by the feel good statement their doing it for all pilot's everywhere, well...more power to you. If that were truly the case the billboard outside Teterboro say "NOTICE TO ALL PILOTS USING THIS AIRPORT, WE WANT A BIG RAISE FOR YOU!!" Now all the owners/operators, not just NJ, would see it and rush to give us all a big raise.

Don't expect most of us to buy into it.


2000Flyer

 

[dime line]

Yo Gern Blanston, come over to Flight Options and you will understand why some companys need unions.

 

[gern_blanston]

I hear that from time to time, and I really do try to keep an open mind, but it's difficult. My union experience and that of my 1st wife (separate unions, and no, in case anyone cares, neither of us crossed picket lines) leaves me a bit skeptical.
I may not be quite as skeptical as I once was, however.
I was chief pilot at a 135 operation for a while a couple of years back, and the hiring environment allowed me to hire some really really excellent pilots. Most of 'em were furloughed airline guys from Northwest and USAir. Those 10 guys really changed my mind about 'airline union weenies', I guess I do understand that unions have (or had, at some point anyway) a purpose, but still, the only way I ever accomplished anything in the employment-improvement arena was to quit and go elsewhere.
Flight Options having some friction too, eh?

 

[dime line]

I've never been associated with unions, but for the life of me, I have lost enough liquid money that would have paid the yearly dues, so its hard for me to fathom somebodys 'moral values" and being anit-union.

But if you job is going good like yours, you will never understand, nor want to understand being that your anti-union "teamsters".

And yes I'm sure the Teamsters are a bunch of thugs, but really what is the difference between them and most management?