NJ Posters .....

[h25b]

Ask H2,

He claims our low pay has hurt corporate and 135 salaries... while even closing flight departments.

Cheers,

And I am incorrect how sir ??? Are you trying tell people that NetJets hasn't closed down more than a few flight departments ?

Your rhetoric is quite humorous. On one hand you tell us all that we should all support you because you'd be "raising the bar/lifting all boats" and on the other you say that your pathetic pay doesn't hurt the industry ?

Get your stories straight... By the way. Any more info. on the 135 scab-list threat or is the union still trying to get their act together on that one as well. Come on now, your unified now right ?

Netjets has been accused of holding down GA salaries for years too, and unfortunately that's true too!

Evidently, El-Chup doesn't agree with you on that one... Yet another case of selective memory...

I just don't get your logic: If raising the salaries of thousands of pilots (us) didn't raise yours, why do you thing that raising yours will raise everyone elses?

Ace

I can answer that one... It's the typical union shop situation at work. They think a union helps them, but in reality it slows everything down. Marching around in circles, ranting and raving, and passing out "informational" leaflets to customers always makes management want to give their employees a raise as fast as possible, right ??? Read "KingAirRick" 's signature line, a rising tide doesn't affect those boats above the locks...

 

[El Chupacabra]

H2,

Calm down. All I did was told Ace to ask you. I knew you would not disappoint him.


The scab list is a dead issue. No Strike will be authorized. At least not for a long time.... But even if it were not dead... those that posted in disagreement with me are simply wrong. ASAP did not say 135 pilots flying struck work would go on a scablist.

 

[h25b]

H2,

Calm down. All I did was told Ace to ask you. I knew you would not disappoint him.


The scab list is a dead issue. No Strike will be authorized. At least not for a long time.... But even if it were not dead... those that posted in disagreement with me are simply wrong. ASAP did not say 135 pilots flying struck work would go on a scablist.

Good to hear about the scab thing, still IMHO an incredibly stupid move by whoever chose to throw it in to the mix..

Thanks for your confidence, wouldn't want to disappoint...

 

[old*art]

2000Flyer ... for clarification only .... "We - not the shiny airplanes - are the NJ product" - The "WE" was meant as rhetorical but - yes - referring to the pilots, as the owners do not interact with the dispatchers, mechanics, schedulers, flight managers or any of the other outstanding support folks we have working with us at Netjets. The pilot force is the face of Netjets, and it is getting a little tired and haggard looking. The rest of your post is opinion, to which you are certainly entitled. I will say however that I have never flown with a more outstanding group of folks than the pilots here at Netjets.

 

[netjetwife]

PFP, the point you make is a valid one and is the exact reason that I wanted to set the record straight with that out-of-context quote. I firmly believe that fairness demands that Local 1108/NJA Pilots are judged by their actions as a group--not the reputation of others or the posts of a few of their own members. They have taken the high road in their labor dispute dealings, seeking diligently to press their cause-- legally and professionally. I would like to second Old's opinion that the NJ pilots are a great group of guys/gals. I've spoken and/or exchanged emails with quite a few of them, and have found them to be respectful and polite, even when we disagree in our outlook on the issues we face. Meaning that I thought the NMB would release the parties for self-help. That it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean that it is not still an option. That chapter is still being written.


Ace, as I have never explained my thoughts behind my use of the "rising tide" comment, it is understandable that you have incorrectly assigned meaning to it. First and foremost, the rising tide, in my mind, are the profits of NJ Inc., to which the NJA pilots have made a huge contribution without just compensation. That said, it is logical to expect that the wages paid by the leader of the fractional industry will have an impact on salaries offered by the competition. Time will tell.

2000Flyer, as you say, you are on the outside, so not really qualified to judge whether or not the majority of NJ pilots do believe they are helping the industry by fighting for professional treatment. The evidence of that assertion is seen in the frequency of posts on the ASAP board, expressing that opinion. While it isn't the primary motive of the majority, that doesn't mean it isn't stated as just one more reason that the pilots must stand their ground. The pilots are very unified and calls for the "greater good" are heard constantly.

 

[Fozzy]

bump to the top

Okay, how about we leave all these company trolls to themselves. Just stop posting here. Untill this contract is done, this is the only type of post you will see from me. Give them nothing.

Stop posting, you are not helping.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Small companies always compare what they're offering to avoid losing their training costs and staff to large corporations. If NJA gets a big raise, the whole industry will benefit enormously!

Netjets has been accused of holding down GA salaries for years too, and unfortunately that's true too!

What is that supposed to mean? I don't work for a small company, I work for a large corporation, I am in a GA job and I make way over 100K. In what world is that underpaid? If NJA gets a big raise, how exactly do I (and my pilot friends) benefit?

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

bump to the top

Okay, how about we leave all these company trolls to themselves. Just stop posting here. Untill this contract is done, this is the only type of post you will see from me. Give them nothing.

Stop posting, you are not helping.

I was under the impression that you were all posting here to garner support from the rest of the industry. If that is not true, you SHOULD stop this line of posts.

Ace

 

[2000flyer]

2000Flyer, as you say, you are on the outside, so not really qualified to judge whether or not the majority of NJ pilots do believe they are helping the industry by fighting for professional treatment. The evidence of that assertion is seen in the frequency of posts on the ASAP board, expressing that opinion. While it isn't the primary motive of the majority, that doesn't mean it isn't stated as just one more reason that the pilots must stand their ground. The pilots are very unified and calls for the "greater good" are heard constantly.

NJwife...I am not qualified to judge? Why then, when I talk to NJ pilot's across the country, that not one, absolutely not one has said to me "we want a pay raise to benefit all pilots everywhere, not just at NetJets." It's a hollow argument at best. I have no doubt there are some that may feel that way but when it comes down to it, your husband (and you), and all the other pilot's are looking out for number one...themselves. That is not to say they don't care about other pilots and their QOL, but you are fighting for no one but you. Period.

Now, I'd agree 100% with your statement that the majority is for professional treatment. Professional treatment at your company, for sure. But are you going to sit there and tell me that you're concerned about the treatment of pilot's at Citation Shares, FlexJet or any other flight department. ?Do you honestly think that striking, jumping or screaming is going to make a difference? A year or two down the road when one of the other fractionals boasts the highest industry salary, are those at NetJets going to pat themselves on the back and high five down the halls because it was actually they who got someone else a raise? Hardly!

2000Flyer ... for clarification only .... "We - not the shiny airplanes - are the NJ product" - The "WE" was meant as rhetorical but - yes - referring to the pilots, as the owners do not interact with the dispatchers, mechanics, schedulers, flight managers or any of the other outstanding support folks we have working with us at Netjets. The pilot force is the face of Netjets, and it is getting a little tired and haggard looking. The rest of your post is opinion, to which you are certainly entitled. I will say however that I have never flown with a more outstanding group of folks than the pilots here at Netjets.

So, when an owner needs an airplane, they call the pilot's to schedule? When they order catering, they figure the pilot's placed the order and drove to pick it up? Because the plane flew safely from A to B, it was because the pilot's performed the maintenance?

True, when a customer arrives at the airport, it is the pilot they see. It is the pilot that flies that shiny jet from A to B. However, using that argument, is the bus driver the "face of Greyhound?"

As hard as it is to accept, you and I are a commodity. We're also replacable. That is NOT to say you and I don't deserve a fair and reasonable salary. I've said it a hundred times if I've said it once, the pilot's at NetJets deserve a raise. I can't be any clearer than that. Tell me you want a raise. Tell me you want to be treated as a professional. That, I can buy. But don't try to sell me the argument your doing it for everyone else. Delta doesn't negotiate a new contract to benefit Northwest. United doesn't want a raise for the benefit of American. They do it for themselves. You're doing it for you and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

2000Flyer

 

[gern_blanston]

help others earn more" in a given industry.

It's the typical union shop situation at work. They think a union helps them, but in reality it slows everything down. Marching around in circles, ranting and raving, and passing out "informational" leaflets to customers always makes management want to give their employees a raise as fast as possible, right ???

This is the first thing that I think of when I think of unions. This sums up my experience with the teamsters perfectly.

I just don't get your logic: If raising the salaries of thousands of pilots (us) didn't raise yours, why do you thing that raising yours will raise everyon elses?

This is a good question. If this theory really works, it should work both ways.

I have never held a job where I take a pay raise by saying, thinking, or feeling that I've personally helped all other segments salary issues. A byproduct of my salary may be a benefit for others but I have never asked for a pay raise "to help others earn more" in a given industry.

A lot of unioneers do talk this way, although I wonder if they were given the choice of a 45% raise for themselves, or a 25% raise for all pilots of similar machines, or all employees in their company - casino, dispatch, etc., which they'd choose.
Like many others voicing opinions here, I am an outsider looking in, but having lived through a teamster strike (which I voted against) I do have a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth at the mention of the words 'teamster' and 'union'.
It seems to me that this might be a bit different than the average strike, if it comes to that. Instead of nameless customers watching nameless employees picketing at some factory, it'd be more like me marching around the corporate hangar with a sign when my boss shows up for a flight. There is a difference, isn't there?
I guess all I can say is 'Good luck'. It'll be interesting to see what happens.