NJ contract extension

[Ultra Grump]

DOH is not the most equitable answer, when considering the other advantages afforded the NJI side. Like I said, if you want to truly consider that because we were "one system" all along, NJI should get date of hire, then we should use that same argument regarding aircraft and position. "You can't have it both ways," I believe was the comment.

There are GIV captains at NJI that could not hold Ultra captain at NJA.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

There are GIV captains at NJI that could not hold Ultra captain at NJA.

Ultra Grump,

I know and understand that there are GIV PIC's that are junior on the VSL. I understand the emotional side of it.

However, what would be an equitable solution? I'm not trying to be facetious; I'm trying to figure out whether another solution would be realistic and feasible. Any other potential solution cannot be contradictory to our argument that NJA and NJI are and always have been one and the same Company.

IDEtoNJA

 

[gutshotdraw]

DOH is not the most equitable answer, when considering the other advantages afforded the NJI side. Like I said, if you want to truly consider that because we were "one system" all along, NJI should get date of hire, then we should use that same argument regarding aircraft and position. "You can't have it both ways," I believe was the comment.

There are GIV captains at NJI that could not hold Ultra captain at NJA.

And those Captains came to NJI with the understanding and the promise that it was, and would remain, a separate non-union shop. It's part of the reason why they accepted the position. The rules of the game have clearly changed but to flush them into a system bid would not only be ridiculously expensive for the company but patently unfair as well. The leadership of 1108 (nee NJASAP) understands it and has negotiated and planned accordingly.

 

[Abbey]

And those Captains came to NJI with the understanding and the promise that it was, and would remain, a separate non-union shop. It's part of the reason why they accepted the position. The rules of the game have clearly changed but to flush them into a system bid would not only be ridiculously expensive for the company but patently unfair as well. The leadership of 1108 (nee NJASAP) understands it and has negotiated and planned accordingly.

So why do said NJI Captains continue to work for an outfit that turned on them? Surely, they would be better off to pursue other career options so not to be submitted to false promises and dreams. Maybe they should show their excellence of character and resign their position as NetJets has obviously cut them deep.

Of course I am being a smart apple here, but it is a good thing that the G Boys have had someone looking out for them. Feel free to kick in a little monetary donotion to the cause.

 

[btodd77]

My solution would be DOH, as is currently proposed, with pay protection for everyone. ie...if there is a GIV capt or fo that is junior to you then you get the money as well. I have no desire to fly a G since I have a 2 hour ass, but there are G-IV capt's junior to me on the seniority list. The part I'm most concerned about is if they are making more than I am that we are all brought up(not bring them down) and that when I get to the 14 year point and the pay scale tops out that I am considered(for pay purposes) a PIC in over 40k airplane.
BT

 

[realityman]

My solution would be DOH, as is currently proposed, with pay protection for everyone. ie...if there is a GIV capt or fo that is junior to you then you get the money as well. I have no desire to fly a G since I have a 2 hour ass, but there are G-IV capt's junior to me on the seniority list. The part I'm most concerned about is if they are making more than I am that we are all brought up(not bring them down) and that when I get to the 14 year point and the pay scale tops out that I am considered(for pay purposes) a PIC in over 40k airplane.
BT

I like your thinking. It's creative. Unfortunately, not gonna happen. Have you had a look at the VSL? The GIV captains alone go well down our list. I highly doubt RTS will suddenly start paying over 1000 pilots on our seniority list GIV captain pay. And the F/O's go even further down. So all of a sudden 800 F/O's get a large bump in pay? Mmmmm.........I think not.

However, I totally agree that next round of contract talks we should be brought up to their pay level. That would certainly be a more achievable goal.

 

[Diesel]

Its really not about pay protection as much as it is about seat protection and aircraft protection. I'm probably the highest paid FO and the most senior FO on the VSL (about to be bumped though) and 70 percent more senior than the captains at NJI. But I'll never ever see upgrade.

You're not going to see Gulfstream pilots move to any of the planes on the NJA side as long as the NJI schedulers, and dispatchers, and support staff stay where they are. If the companies become more homogeneous by integrating the support staff then you might see some movement but even then I doubt it. If the damn seats weren't so hard in the GIV I'd love the plane.

I've always thought if both sides are unhappy then whatever the outcome was it was fair. That is the way it is with the VSL, both sides are somewhat unhappy but a 5 year company lock ensures that there isn't all this movement for nothing.

Most of the NJI pilots I've flown with have a wait and see attitude now. Time heals all wounds and everybody knows its coming. There will be some big changes to get used to. Also I think management is realizing they don't get to make the decisions anymore on this. They are being made by two people and they too are waiting for the outcome.