semperfido
Keep Humpin
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NJ Citation V runs out of r/w at HPN yesterday
- Thread starter PMVULB AvMgr
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goatrope said:
I do not post personal attacks unless it is in an obvious joking manner, but this time I am pi$$ed. You can't even spell. It's a good thing you are not a duck because if you were you would drown.
As of yet, and for some time to come, we don't know what happened at HPN. Those of us who have been around this business for a while know from experience that when landing on a snowy/windy runway there are numerous things that can go wrong, and at times no pilot in the world has the ability to prevent the aircraft from becoming an SUV. I could list many situations, but I doubt you have the ability within your cranial vacuum to understand them.
You may not like the attitude of some Netjet pilots. I do not agree with them on a few of their issues, but they are THEIR issues and they are entitled to the opinions they have. I have flown with many NJA'ers, both in the aircraft and in the simulator, and I know for a fact the issues they have with the company DO NOT carry over into the cockpit.
I will even go so far as to say they are unmatched in any part of this industry in their flying skills, cockpit discipline and attitude toward safety.
Goatrope...you need to get back under the porch with the rest of the pups because your attitude definitely indicates you are nowhere near being ready to run with the big dogs!
Ok, that's it. I will go back to being nice again.
goatrope said:
What a cheap shot! I suggest you learn to keep your mouth shut until and if you know what you're talking about. As a Flight Options/competitor pilot, who refuses to bad-mouth fractional brethren without knowing any facts, I only can hope you're not one of us. Pretty pathetic!
Turbinehead
One Dot High
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2002
- Posts
- 174
Could have been worse
Thank goodness nobody was hurt. But the aircraft was somewhat damaged.
At least they still have the airframe. Remember the Leakey Texas accident? That ultra was all toasty crunchy by the time it was over. What was the outcome of that investigation?
Been a nasty winter.
T
Thank goodness nobody was hurt. But the aircraft was somewhat damaged.
At least they still have the airframe. Remember the Leakey Texas accident? That ultra was all toasty crunchy by the time it was over. What was the outcome of that investigation?
Been a nasty winter.
T
Turbinehead
One Dot High
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2002
- Posts
- 174
Now wait a minute.
Airport operations back to normal
By RICHARD LIEBSON
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original Publication: March 25, 2005)
Things were back to normal yesterday at the Westchester County Airport, where air traffic was halted for about five hours Wednesday night when a corporate jet skidded off a runway during landing.
"The airport is operating normally,'' said Harry Stanton, county deputy transportation commissioner. "The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating last night's incident and the National Transportation Safety Board will come in if it's deemed necessary.''
The incident occurred at 6:19 p.m., when a twin-engine Cessna Citation V jet owned by NetJets came in on runway 16 — the airport's main airstrip — and skidded 150 feet before sliding off the runway.
At that point, FAA spokesman Jim Peters said, the jet's nose wheel landing gear collapsed.
The plane was coming from Nantucket with four passengers and two crew members; none were hurt.
The mishap shut down flight operations until the FAA gave approval for the plane to be towed to the NetJets hanger at the airport.
Incoming flights resumed about 10 p.m. and departing flights an hour later.
"Normal procedure dictates that everything shuts down when there's an incident until the FAA gives approval to reopen," Stanton said. "It's really the safest way to handle something like this.''
Asked if Wednesday's snow storm may have contributed to the incident, Stanton said the runways had been kept clear by airport workers.
Peters said FAA investigators will talk to crew members of NetJets Flight 331 to try to determine what may have gone wrong.
"I don't know if we will inspect the aircraft,'' he said. "Normally it's the owner's responsibility to make repairs and make sure it's airworthy and then report to us.''
NetJets spokeswoman Maryann Aarseth said the company would have no comment on the incident.
Jill Andrews, an air safety investigator from the NTSB's northeast regional office in Parsippany, N.J., said the agency was monitoring the incident, but would not necessarily open its own investigation.
"We don't get involved unless there is substantial damage,'' she said. "My understanding is that in this case the damage was relatively minor and that there was no serious impact to flight operations.''
************************************************
I'm not getting something here. Not the first time but hey at least someones paying attention.
?Remember when the Hawker 700 ran off the ruwnay at TEB this month? Same thing, minor damage, but the FEDS pulled the CVR.
Now we got the same thing at HPN, and the FEDS dont look at the aircraft?
Woooo. Now politics playing a role here or am I missing something.
*******************************
NTSB Identification: NYC05IA055
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Incident occurred Tuesday, March 08, 2005 in Teterboro, NJ
Aircraft: British Aerospace BAE-125-700A, registration: N703TS
Injuries: 4 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On March 8, 2005, about 2200 eastern standard time, a British Aerospace BAE-125-700A, N703TS, sustained minor damage while landing at Teterboro Airport (TEB), Teterboro, New Jersey. The two certificated airline transport pilots and two passengers were not injured. Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that departed Port Columbus International Airport (CMH), Columbus, Ohio. An instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
The pilot stated that he instructed the copilot to select 15 degrees of flap extension, during the approach, about 30 miles from the airport. The pilot then instructed the copilot to select 25 degrees of flap extension while the airplane was on a right downwind leg for runway 1; a 7,000-foot-long, 150-foot-wide, asphalt runway. The pilot added that the airplane encountered severe low level windshear during the approach. The pilot continued the approach and flew the final approach at Vref (119 knots) plus 15 knots to compensate for the wind. A smooth touchdown was made in the touchdown zone, at Vref plus 10 knots, and the pilot instructed the copilot to extend full flaps.
The pilot selected the airbrake to "Dump," and felt the airplane slowing as if the spoilers were working correctly. He was focused on runway alignment and did not divert his attention to look down at the airbrake lever. The pilot further stated that the airbrake lever could not be positioned to "Dump" unless the full flap extension was already selected. The pilot also felt the anti-skid braking system working correctly. However, about the midpoint of the runway, he felt like the airplane encountered a tailwind or ice on the runway, as it did not continue to decelerate. The airplane traveled off the end of the runway at approximately 30 knots.
After the overrun, the pilot started to "clean up" the airplane by retracting the flaps and moving the airbrake toward closed. The first officer interrupted him and suggested an evacuation.
The pilot later heard that a Gulfstream G-III, on approach ahead of the incident airplane, performed a go-around due to turbulence. The pilot was not aware of the Gulfstream G-III go-around during his approach.
The airplane came to rest approximately 230 feet beyond the departure end of runway 1. The spoilers were found in the extended position, and the flaps were found in the retracted position. Minor damage was observed on the landing gear, and a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector planned to further examine the damage when the airplane was recovered.
The airplane's cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was retained by the Safety Board for further examination.
The reported weather at TEB, at 2151, was: wind from 320 degrees at 12 knots, gusting to 28 knots, with a peak wind at 320 degrees at 38 knots; visibility 10 miles; broken ceiling at 11,000 feet; temperature 19 degrees F; dew point 3 degrees F; altimeter 29.38 inches Hg
_______________________________
Airport operations back to normal
By RICHARD LIEBSON
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original Publication: March 25, 2005)
Things were back to normal yesterday at the Westchester County Airport, where air traffic was halted for about five hours Wednesday night when a corporate jet skidded off a runway during landing.
"The airport is operating normally,'' said Harry Stanton, county deputy transportation commissioner. "The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating last night's incident and the National Transportation Safety Board will come in if it's deemed necessary.''
The incident occurred at 6:19 p.m., when a twin-engine Cessna Citation V jet owned by NetJets came in on runway 16 — the airport's main airstrip — and skidded 150 feet before sliding off the runway.
At that point, FAA spokesman Jim Peters said, the jet's nose wheel landing gear collapsed.
The plane was coming from Nantucket with four passengers and two crew members; none were hurt.
The mishap shut down flight operations until the FAA gave approval for the plane to be towed to the NetJets hanger at the airport.
Incoming flights resumed about 10 p.m. and departing flights an hour later.
"Normal procedure dictates that everything shuts down when there's an incident until the FAA gives approval to reopen," Stanton said. "It's really the safest way to handle something like this.''
Asked if Wednesday's snow storm may have contributed to the incident, Stanton said the runways had been kept clear by airport workers.
Peters said FAA investigators will talk to crew members of NetJets Flight 331 to try to determine what may have gone wrong.
"I don't know if we will inspect the aircraft,'' he said. "Normally it's the owner's responsibility to make repairs and make sure it's airworthy and then report to us.''
NetJets spokeswoman Maryann Aarseth said the company would have no comment on the incident.
Jill Andrews, an air safety investigator from the NTSB's northeast regional office in Parsippany, N.J., said the agency was monitoring the incident, but would not necessarily open its own investigation.
"We don't get involved unless there is substantial damage,'' she said. "My understanding is that in this case the damage was relatively minor and that there was no serious impact to flight operations.''
************************************************
I'm not getting something here. Not the first time but hey at least someones paying attention.
?Remember when the Hawker 700 ran off the ruwnay at TEB this month? Same thing, minor damage, but the FEDS pulled the CVR.
Now we got the same thing at HPN, and the FEDS dont look at the aircraft?
Woooo. Now politics playing a role here or am I missing something.
*******************************
NTSB Identification: NYC05IA055
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Incident occurred Tuesday, March 08, 2005 in Teterboro, NJ
Aircraft: British Aerospace BAE-125-700A, registration: N703TS
Injuries: 4 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On March 8, 2005, about 2200 eastern standard time, a British Aerospace BAE-125-700A, N703TS, sustained minor damage while landing at Teterboro Airport (TEB), Teterboro, New Jersey. The two certificated airline transport pilots and two passengers were not injured. Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that departed Port Columbus International Airport (CMH), Columbus, Ohio. An instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
The pilot stated that he instructed the copilot to select 15 degrees of flap extension, during the approach, about 30 miles from the airport. The pilot then instructed the copilot to select 25 degrees of flap extension while the airplane was on a right downwind leg for runway 1; a 7,000-foot-long, 150-foot-wide, asphalt runway. The pilot added that the airplane encountered severe low level windshear during the approach. The pilot continued the approach and flew the final approach at Vref (119 knots) plus 15 knots to compensate for the wind. A smooth touchdown was made in the touchdown zone, at Vref plus 10 knots, and the pilot instructed the copilot to extend full flaps.
The pilot selected the airbrake to "Dump," and felt the airplane slowing as if the spoilers were working correctly. He was focused on runway alignment and did not divert his attention to look down at the airbrake lever. The pilot further stated that the airbrake lever could not be positioned to "Dump" unless the full flap extension was already selected. The pilot also felt the anti-skid braking system working correctly. However, about the midpoint of the runway, he felt like the airplane encountered a tailwind or ice on the runway, as it did not continue to decelerate. The airplane traveled off the end of the runway at approximately 30 knots.
After the overrun, the pilot started to "clean up" the airplane by retracting the flaps and moving the airbrake toward closed. The first officer interrupted him and suggested an evacuation.
The pilot later heard that a Gulfstream G-III, on approach ahead of the incident airplane, performed a go-around due to turbulence. The pilot was not aware of the Gulfstream G-III go-around during his approach.
The airplane came to rest approximately 230 feet beyond the departure end of runway 1. The spoilers were found in the extended position, and the flaps were found in the retracted position. Minor damage was observed on the landing gear, and a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector planned to further examine the damage when the airplane was recovered.
The airplane's cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was retained by the Safety Board for further examination.
The reported weather at TEB, at 2151, was: wind from 320 degrees at 12 knots, gusting to 28 knots, with a peak wind at 320 degrees at 38 knots; visibility 10 miles; broken ceiling at 11,000 feet; temperature 19 degrees F; dew point 3 degrees F; altimeter 29.38 inches Hg
_______________________________
Last edited:
Trust me. . . the CDR has been pulled and is being reviewed. Because they didn't mention it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Someone asked about Leaky, TX (sorry if I misspelled):
OAT 20C higher than reported to crew
Runway cracks filled with non-aviation tar filler (runway covered with these filled cracks) - tar was liquified due to high temps - tar was photographed with splash marks where tires passed through (kind of slippery)
Crew crossed approach end 10kts above ref - SOP calls for Vref
Right main anti-skid failed - Right main locked up causing uncommanded 30 degree right turn that pulled a/c off right side of runway
When a/c departed runway, hit a berm, skiped a trench, gear collapsed and right wing root impacted a tree - causing resulting fuel leak and fire.
Crew executed emergency shutdown/fire procedures (even made the call-outs as per the SOP as shown on the CVR)
Crew and passengers evacuated a/c
When the captain was out, realized one passenger (elderly) had not been able to get out, he returned to the now burning and smoke filled aircraft, entered and pulled the man to safety.
Aircraft completely burned from rear of pilot seats to aft lav - baggage was left intact, but covered in fuel and water . . .
I flew with the FO - I'd fly with these guys any day.
Someone asked about Leaky, TX (sorry if I misspelled):
OAT 20C higher than reported to crew
Runway cracks filled with non-aviation tar filler (runway covered with these filled cracks) - tar was liquified due to high temps - tar was photographed with splash marks where tires passed through (kind of slippery)
Crew crossed approach end 10kts above ref - SOP calls for Vref
Right main anti-skid failed - Right main locked up causing uncommanded 30 degree right turn that pulled a/c off right side of runway
When a/c departed runway, hit a berm, skiped a trench, gear collapsed and right wing root impacted a tree - causing resulting fuel leak and fire.
Crew executed emergency shutdown/fire procedures (even made the call-outs as per the SOP as shown on the CVR)
Crew and passengers evacuated a/c
When the captain was out, realized one passenger (elderly) had not been able to get out, he returned to the now burning and smoke filled aircraft, entered and pulled the man to safety.
Aircraft completely burned from rear of pilot seats to aft lav - baggage was left intact, but covered in fuel and water . . .
I flew with the FO - I'd fly with these guys any day.
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