News from the quagmire

[100LL... Again!]

Some good to go along with the bad:

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/editorial/8723924.htm

But this doesn't 'matter' does it? Even allowing yourselves to think that for one second we me be winning this would take all the fun out of being a liberal. Fashion is fickle, though.

 

[bart]

Just another Vietnam, or at least if the lefties got a hold of it, they would turn it into one.

 

[CLCAP]

You guys don't even realize how wrong you are! I (and I bet most other people) would LOVE for the Iraqi's to have welcomed us with flowers like they were supposed to!! I'd love to hear that no more American soldiers are dying.

But you got to see the truth for what it is and take your rose colored glasses off! Two americans and a bunch of Iraquis are being killed down there a day! And WHAT in the world does it acomplish? Except the fact that they will politely ask us to leave as soon as they have a government in place - and the fact that for every killed Iraqi - there are several sons, brothers, cousins and friends that vow to avenge them in the furture (read terrorists in making)

Israel has tried our policy for the last 56 years. Fight fire with fire (one can with right claim that they don't have another choice - they can just withdraw), but even they realized that the cost was too much and got out of southern Lebanon a couple of years ago.
But after trying for 56 years - they still were not able to "win" the war on terrorism.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

CLCAP, you are so correct! The Jews were met with MUCH more success from 1939-1945...

 

[CLCAP]

Ehh I think you've got your history backwards....Jews were actually an opressed (and eventualy most killed) minority in Germany and german controlled territories. The palestinians today are a - to a certain extent oppressed (they have no voting or movement rights, their houses get demolished as punishment for what a family member did etc...) minority in Israel. Not really sure where you are going with this. Oh and by the way...it started way before 1939 in Germany and german occupied + friendly territories (something like 1933)!

1939 was when WW II started.

 

[100LL... Again!]

The modern state of Israel exists because wise heads knew that Europe would not forever be able to abstain from spilling Jewish blood.

Blame the Germans and their quavering kiss-ups, the french (lower-case on purpose).

Any group that withstood that level of persecution deserves a safe haven of their own.


Inerestingly, among most liberal thinkers, the slightest misstep by Israel is amplified into full blown malignancy, while "palestinian" atrocities are excused under the 'noble savage' doctrine.

Anti-semitism is alive and well in the USA, that's for sure.

 

[CLCAP]

Kind of true....the state of Israel was proclamed by the jews in 1948. It was originally intended to be a state where the palestinians and the jews would live side by side but the arabs in the area attacked one day after the proclamation of independence and got their butts kicked.

Fast forward till now - and even the most hardcore conservative cannot dispute the fact that the state of Israel is not really being fair to their palestinian population. Most of them are "stateless". They are born in the occupied areas and get no voting power, no ability to move out. The Israeli military punishes families of suspected terrorists by leveling their houses and making them homeless (wouldn't go over too well in Oregon if they leveled the house of the attorneys parents).

Your point about people amplifying Israeli missteps is well taken - but Israel is almost a democracy (allmost - since several hundreds of thousands of its inhabitants cannot vote even though they lived there for generations) and they are held to a much higher standard in the world opinion then a small fraction of a people that do not have formal representation, do not have one leadership giving orders and are considered opressed.

Another myth.....the Jews in Nazi occupied France actually fared better then the Jews in almost any other Nazi friendly or occupied teritory. Lots of french people actually went out of their way to hide them - and several towns and villages openly opposed the german directives. It makes me laugh that people are so fast to condemn France - when without their help - we possibly still would have been a part of the Commonwealth.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Many of the Palestians are 'stateless' because they demand the destruction of Israel and their leaders are corrupt. There are many Arabs that hold Israeli citizenship and can vote in Israeli elections.

If parents taught their kids NOT to go sacrifice themselves to blow up a bus of innocents, there wouldn't be any destroyed houses...

 

[merikeyegro]

Someone said that Iraq would turn into a quagmire if the "lefties" got a hold of it. Um, what lefties?

I had to laugh at that one. I guess our present-day policy in Iraq is going so well that those d@mn liberals will just screw it up if they get their tax-loving, tree-hugging, money-swallowing hands on it. After all, the only people that are attacking Americans "hate freedom." Quagmire = Can't stay, can't leave. It's called zero good options...Brought to you by George W. Bush and the Project for a New American Century.

I'm sure the American militias back in the 1770s "hated" freedom, too. I can just see the leaders of Britain and the hawkish newspaper headlines screaming the same thing.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Democracy comes from within, not from without. Imposing democracy is an oxymoron. It's folly to think that we can create a democracy out of nothing. We should have left the day we nabbed Hussein.

Liberators, my ass...Stop spending my money.