Newest ATP pilot

[John Hewlett]

I envy you!

Congrats my friend, congrats. How was the ride anyway? Pretty tough?

Yeah the examiner is right. You can time an ILS if you want, but it may cause more trouble than its worth, so you don't have to at all.

The FAF for an ILS is GS intercept. The lightning bolt. The FAF for the localizer only portion is the cross.

Thats great about the new rating and I wish you luck with an upcoming job! Have a great day, and by all means be proud, you've earned it!

J.

 

[Little_Bill]

ILS & Time

Hello,

Just some food for thought.

Back in the day when I was taking my instrument practical, I too neglected to start the time on an ILS. Being the last approach for the check ride I presumed everything went well. Back on the ground the DE asked about the timing. Caught off guard, I back-peddled and explained that it was a precision approach yada, yada, yada... He then asked what would happen if G/S went out? I talked about going missed and setting up for a localizer only or perhaps another type of approach altogether.

Basically my answers were not good enough for him and it was pink slip time! It became pretty heated at the FBO between my instructor, the chief pilot and the D/E. But that's another story.

Anyways, .5 hours of remedial instruction in the log book I was ready 2 days later. My instructor to this day believes I should have passed and all we did was fly around the pattern. He explained that I didn't need any more instruction and he just wanted to cover his a$$ with the log book endorsement.

One trip around the pattern with the DE commencing with a timed ILS, I was a newly minted instrument pilot.

It was also nice of the DE to charge me the full $250 for the second checkride that lasted a total of .8! (insert sarcasm)

Just a little story from my corner of the world.

Bill

 

[prodigal]

FAF

As most of the others have already said, FAF on an ILS is indeed GS intercept AT GS INTERCEPT ALTITUDE (AS SHOWN ON THE PLATE) OR AT MINIMUM VECTORING ALT. . . . not at any altitude, as someone else wrote. False GS can be picked up at higher altitudes and farther out. Note that the altitude depicted above the maltese cross on most ILS approaches are slightly lower than the GS intercept alt. This is the alt. at which you should be if on the loc and true GS as you cross that fix. This is a way to double check that you are indeed where you are supposed to be.
As for timing, I usually do, esp. in slower aircraft since you can more easily transition to a loc approach. In faster a/c a miss may be better.

 

[TWC]

CONGRATS!!!!!
Where did you take the ride and what was it like?I am getting close to take mine. As far as the timing on an ILS I was taught to use it but tend to agree to go missed the rebrief for the LOC. I started teaching use your time but if the GS goes out go missed anyway. Cover all the bases

 

[414Flyer]

Re: ILS & Time

Hello,

Just some food for thought.

Back in the day when I was taking my instrument practical, I too neglected to start the time on an ILS. Being the last approach for the check ride I presumed everything went well. Back on the ground the DE asked about the timing. Caught off guard, I back-peddled and explained that it was a precision approach yada, yada, yada... He then asked what would happen if G/S went out? I talked about going missed and setting up for a localizer only or perhaps another type of approach altogether.


Bill

Nowhere in the PTS does it mention you have to time an ILS. That is a bogus bust. He could have afterwards said it is what he likes to do, and recommended it, but to fail you for it is wrong.

 

[Timebuilder]

Well done. I plan to join the "club" by Christmas.

 

[Little_Bill]

Bogus and then some

414,

That was our logic after the ride. Like I said, things got pretty heated in the FBO. But the examiner wouldn't hear otherwise. His philosophy was losing GS was no big deal. If you had your time you could still continue with a non-precision approach. Yet I was always taught to go around, regroup and prepare for the next approach.

Oh well, like I said that was many check rides ago. Plus it also makes good conversation during the interviews.

HR: "Have you ever failed a check ride?"

Me: "Yes, my instrument"

HR: "What Happened?"

Me: "I neglected to start my time on an ILS approach"

HR: "What did you learn from that experience?"

Me: "Basically to start your time on an ILS approach "

Bill

 

[Checks]

SaabSlime,

I edited my post, please read the change. Didnt mean to offend I just wish Pinnacle(NWA) would pay its new hire pilots something. I live relatively close to Detroit and would love to work for them so I am just bitter over how some regionals take full advantage of aspiring airline pilots. Ok Off the soapbox!

Timing and the ILS
-If the GS goes out then when do you know when to turn?
-I also do it out of habit.

FAF on ILS
-I thought the AIMwas pretty clear that the FAF on an ILS is the point where the GS intercepts at the intermediate altitude(or lower if ATC vectors you lower). The DPE didnt agree at all. Oh well