Newest ATP pilot

[Checks]

I am finally an ATP rated pilot!

Now if I can just get a decent regional to call me for an interview!(A regional that pays something during training or who's parent company isnt close to Chapter 11)

Two questions came up on my checkride that I couldnt change the DPE's mind on.
1. He says to not time an ILS approach. I say you do. He says you dont have to.
2. He says the FAF on an ILS is GS intercept. I say it is GS intercept at the intermediate altitude(or lower).

Yes, we both pulled out the FAR/AIM and couldnt convince the other one of our viewpoint/opinion.

Overall, it was a great checkride. Even though it was an ATP ride I learned a lot from him.

On Cloud Nine,

Checks

 

[banned username 2]

Congrats on the ATP... Just don't stop learning! (and it looks like you have already learned that lesson!)

Congrats again!

Fly Safe!

 

[skydiverdriver]

I agree with the examiner. Why time an ILS? I never do. I once heard some people say you could turn it into a localizer only aproach, but that would be changing the game in the middle, and a go around would be much safer.

The faf is glideslope intercept, at any altitude. He is correct on that one too. The maltese cross that you see on many ILS approach charts is just for the localizer only approach.

Good job on getting your ATP, but why do you call NWA a regional?

 

[Britpilot]

Nice one, congrats

 

[throttlejockey]

1. I agree with the DPE on the timing of ILS approaches - if you lose GS after the FAF you should execute the miss and plan on shooting a different approach.

2. Disagree with the other posters on FAF -

To the best of my knowledge the The Final Approach Fix on a ILS is still located at the outer marker, or in some cases a radar fix or DME fix. Remember, a FIX is a FIX, it is a non-movable position.

However, what is different from other types of approaches is that the Final Approach SEGMENT begins at GS Intercept rather than upon crossing an FAF.

You were both half-correct!

Congrats! Now git yer'self a job woodya!

 

[Tri-holer]

My $.02.

Never bothered to time an ILS. Like they said, if the GS died during the approach, much safer to regroup, rebrief, and redo.

I believe the FAF for an ILS is the GS intercept at the charted altitude or lower. I have many times joined the localizer and intercepted the GS at about 30 miles. Coming into INDY in the middle of the night. There is no way we could be cleared for the ILS that far out.

Good job.

 

[Dieterly]

From the Jepp

(FAF) The fix from which the final approach (IFR) to an airport is executed and which identifies the beginning of the final approach segment. It is designated in the profile view of the Jeppesen Terminal charts by the Maltese Cross symbol for nonprecicion approaches and by the glide slope/path intercept point on precision approaches. The glideslope/path symbol starts at the FAF. When ATC directs a lower-than-published Glide Slope/Path Intercept Altitude, it is the resultant actual point of the glide slope/path intercept.

 

[Saabslime]

Now if I can just get a decent regional to call me for an interview!(PSA, NWA are NOT decent regionals)

I assume when you call NWA a regional, you're talking about either Mesaba or Pinnacle as both fly the red tail. Congrats on the ride but be very carefull about burning bridges soo soon in your career. I don't know what qualifies as decent in your book, but I'd be willing to bet you haven't done a great deal of research on any of those company's you listed above.

 

[Britpilot]

1. I agree with the DPE on the timing of ILS approaches - if you lose GS after the FAF you should execute the miss and plan on shooting a different approach.

I use timing on an ILS as a backup for situational awareness. I would not continue an ILS after the slope is lost, in fact Ops Spec prevents us from that. It is just another way of determining the missed approach point if everthing else fails (even the FMS), as sometimes you need to know where to turn as you can climb immediatly but not turn until you are on the missed segment. Anyway, why not time?, it costs nothing.

 

[bobbysamd]

ILS FAF and Timing

Good deal on your ATP. Now that you've earned it, you can update your resume and send them to regionals with an update cover letter stating that you'd like to update your file.

I agree that the FAF for an ILS is the published altitude at GS intercept that coincides with the LOM. I always taught that you should time LOM inbound as I was taught, so you could use LOC only minima if you lose GS. But, the others' thoughts about taking a miss and trying again if you lose GS are better ideas. I would still time it for positional and situational awareness.

Good luck with your job search.

PS-Another good reason to time an ILS is to maintain consistency in procedures. You time VOR and NDB approaches. Do everything the same way every time. Also, maybe to forestall bogus busts, as posted below.