New to GPS approaches; where's the MAP for this one?

[HMR]

The Jepp plate for KHBI makes it a lot clearer where the MAP is and also puts a note next to the VDP stating it's for "LNAV Only".

On the KLN94, if you have the IAF as the active WP, you'll get a message reminding you to select OBS for the procedure turn.

 

[Snakum]

The Garmin 430 doesn't have the problem that the Bendix stuff does. I agree, it can get confusing but the Garmin 430 can 'think' for itself (as far as I remember). I remember it being able to determine the position and that the aircraft is heading outbound and not inbound, and as such it won't sequence the waypoints.

Ya know ... I didn't even think about that, but the 430 always knew where I was heading, I guess, on the procedure and so I didn't give that much thought. I'll have to remember that, though, if I switch to an aircraft with a KLN. Thanks.

I flew my first 200+ hours intentionally eschewing the GPS in the few aircraft I flew that had one. I figured there'd always be time to learn the hi-tech toys and I just concentrated on learning the basics ... VOR, NDB, DME Arcs, triangulating to find position, etc. I usually never even booted thru the GPS screen. I just ignored it. And now that I'm finally learning the GPS it's like someone handing me all the answers. Pretty cool stuff.

Minh

 

[semperfido]

our acft has vnav- so using vnav i would miss at 1320' if i didn't have the runway environment in sight. BUT with my hud down and my evs turned on i may have already had it in sight . if we get the runway environment in sight we spin the altitude pre-selector down to runway elevation and follow the vnav all the way down to the runway this is what they teach at FSI for Gulfstream 550

 

[JimNtexas]

Just be careful with GPS approaches that have procedure turns that have you fly outbound on the inbound course. Sequencing of the waypoints can get screwed up, since you are passing them outbound. Then you have to (for the KLN94 anyway) go to the map mode and select the first waypoint once you turn inbound. Then it'll follow the rest.

I was taught to avoid this by keeping the GPS in OBS mode on the outbound and procedure turn, then switching back to LEG mode before you hit 2 miles from the FAF, so it can go active.

Did I make any sense and does anyone know what I'm talking aboot ?

That's what I do with my KLN-89b. Press OBS approaching the hold point to make a pseudo VOR at the fix, then fly the hold using stick map and cdi, once I'm pointed back at the fix deselect OBS mode and continue the approach.

On the 89b sequencing stops while in OBS mode.

 

[soarby007]

Ok, now don't confuse yourself because this is a GPS approach.

The VDP is 2.5, however if you use VNAV on the approach it will bring you out at 2.1 NM from the runway which is after the VDP. If you are doing a minimums approach using VNAV you will be inside the VDP point and possibly unable to make a normal descent for landing. The VNAV function of the GPS is similar to glide slope information displayed on the ILS, but not the same. The ILS always brings you to a point at the MAP where you can make a normal descent for landing. The difference being that it is possible that you can descend using the VNAV and have to go missed because you cannot descend normally inside the VDP.

The VNAV will bring you to the MAP, which is
2 1/4 miles and a little lower ceiling than the LNAV. Visibility determines the minimums as you know in this approach. There is no timing.
The LNAV lets you in with lower visibility (1NM) but a higher MDA. The reason being the VDP problem using VNAV.

The MAP is, depending on which type of approach you are using, circling, VNAV, or LNAV and is governed by the visibility. The GPS is nice in the sense it gives you distance from the runway and aids in the visibility determination. RW03 is not the MAP.

At the MAP the GPS should sequence to the next waypoint, COSIN and you go from there depending on the type of equuipment you have.

Hopefully I haven't misinformed you.

 

[Snakum]

I'm going to get in the Alarus this weekend, if possible, and fly the RNAV03 and notice exactly what the 430 does. I flew it last weekend but there were a couple traffic SNAFUS going on at once so I broke off the approach and 'got in line' and didn't catch what the screen indications were.

Good stuff mang.

Minher

 

[soarby007]

That's the best way to figure the GPS unit out. Practice and become familiar with it. Note however, that the MAP may not be depicted in your unit as the MAP is still determined by visibility at your MDA. In the Honeywell unit I use there would be no MAP, but would sequence from GABINE to rw03. Of course you would have to proceed to RW03 on the missed and then to COSIN, as depicted. Even though my unit will not signify the MAP on this approach, as a pilot I know that at the appropriate visibility point I would automatically execute the procedure and then you can still follow the GPS.

Good luck with the unit.

 

[soarby007]

Snakum, after re-reading my post I realized I probably confused the issue myself in thinking you were asking when to make the missed approach and answering questions you probably didn't ask. What I was trying to point out was the VDP issue first, landing minimums second. The MAWP is RW03, as is all the other approaches to this airport. You have to go to the MAWP (RW03) before turning, especially in view of the obstacles at this airport. I thought you were asking about when to initiate the missed which of course if the visibility doesn't meet one of the ones in the approach plate,which you can do since you can't land. You do have to go to the MAWP before turning or the GPS won't sequence properly in addition or meeting obstruction and TERPS requirements.

The MAP actually doesn't exist here in that abreviation, instead it is the MAWP. Guess I thought you meant when you should forget landing.

Sorry to have confused anything here.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

most gps approaches are a fly over waypoint ...as indicated by a circle around the fix....and fly by waypoints do not
the new instrument procedures handbook from the FAA is a great resource for learning all the NEW STUFF..LOL
i fly behind bendiz/king and garmin...and now will have to learn to apollo/ups/garmin 480...for full blown VNAV/LNAV approaches SWEET!!!

preety well versed in teaching most...so if you have a specific Q pm me and I'll do my best to get the answer for you
Cowboy

 

[Snakum]

Would you believe I still don't know when to execute the missed approach? I need to grab a GPS-God CFII and ride him through this one ... cuz I be stumped.

My VNAV is sticking out from my LNAV at the VDAP and my ADD/ADHD disorder be acting up. Thanks for trying, though, guys. I'm kinda ig'nunt.

Minh
(I never thought I'd miss NDB approaches. )