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New terrorist threats??? - the Air Marshals speak and tell a slightly different story

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TIS

Wing, Nosewheel, Whatever
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
366
It seems there was a lot more to know about what went on aboard that NWA airplane than Ms. Jacobsen reported. It just goes to show ya that there's two sides to every story. She published and was paid for her's. The Air Marshals collected their salaries.

It also proves that she only saw what she was hoping she would find - a sensational story in which she was completely unprotected in a "dangerous" situation. Ms. Jacobsen didn't want to see or even imagine that anything could be going on beneath the surface where she could not see it in full view. That, because of its very nature, however, is how a war against covert terrorist activities MUST be fought.

TIS

The link: http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html


The text:

AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS

LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 – Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.

The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.

Jacobsen, a self-described freelance writer, has published two stories about her experience at womenswallstreet.com, a business advice web site designed for women.

“The lady was overreacting,” said the source. “A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane.”

The middle eastern men were identified by federal agents as a group of touring musicians travelling to a concert date at a casino, said Air Marshals spokesman Dave Adams.

Jacobsen wrote she became alarmed when the men made frequent trips to the lavatory, repeatedly opened and closed the overhead luggage compartments, and appeared to be signaling each other.

“Initially it was brought to [the air marshals] attention by a passenger,” Adams said, adding the agents had been watching the men and chose to stay undercover.

Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.

“In concert with the flight crew, the decision was made to keep [the men] under surveillance since no terrorist or criminal acts were being perpetrated aboard the aircraft; they didn’t interfere with the flight crew,” Adams said.

The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.

FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it’s significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.

“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,” she said. “The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”

Several people were questioned, she said, but no one was detained.

Jacobsen’s husband Kevin told KFI NEWS he approached a man he thought was an air marshal after the flight had landed.

“You made me nervous,” Kevin said the air marshal told him.

“I was freaking out,” Kevin replied.

“We don’t freak out in situations like this,” the air marshal responded.

Federal agents later verified the musicians’ story.

“We followed up with the casino,” Adams said. A supervisor verified they were playing a concert. A second federal law enforcement source said the concert itself was monitored by an agent.

“We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel,” Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.

The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.

Air marshals’ only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.

“They have to be very cognizant of their surroundings,” spokesman Adams confirmed, “to make sure it isn’t a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover.”

KFI reporter Jessica Rosenthal contributed to this report.

Copyright 2004 KFI NEWS. All rights reserved.
 
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Doesn't sound bogus to me. It sounds like exactly what I said on the thread someone deleted: Overzealous, hysterical racist who wanted to sell her story. Seems like the air marshals and the flight crew were not worried, except about the reported being a hysterical threat herself!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp
 
"This whole episode points out that Democrats are racist paranoid freeks."
 
Hey Flying Freddie

I certainly hope you're NOT referring to ME when you allude to the possibility that MY post is a bogus attempt to find out how the air marshals function aboard aircraft involved in airline operations!

You see, if the intent of your response was to insinuate that the true motivation behind what I posted was to draw out commentary from informed individuals as to the exact nature and scope of security procedures currently in effect, for my own purposes, or in furtherence of some conspiratorial cause, your response is libelous and you could be taken to task for it. I'm going to suggest that you clarify your remarks substantially. It's just the right thing to do!

You need to take a look at the LINK. That's why I included it there in the body of my post! It takes you straight to the KFI (640AM in Los Angeles) website where THEIR reporters Eric Leonard and Jessica Rosenthal have posted their article.

Once again, here it is. GO LOOK AT IT THIS TIME!

http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html

The purpose of my post was, and remains, to demonstrate that regardless of what this woman justifiably or unjustifiably believed was happening aboard that aircraft, when she "freaked out" SHE became the problem. When she then published her account without understanding the things that she SHOULD NOT be privvied to in the first place, she forced a key element of the aviation security system to tip its hand, if ever so slightly.

She is to be censured for that, not commended for her fine journalistic acumen!

The bottom line is that, like certain BBC reporters a few months back when the intelligence on the Iraq/Nigerian yellowcake uraninum connection was being questioned, SHE DIDN'T CHECK HER FACTS and, as a result got it mostly WRONG!

If I have mis-interpreted your remarks then I apologise for this rant but given what you said, you left me no choice but to defend myself - which I WILL do EVERY time.

TIS
 
I think it is a well known fact, that Federal Air Marshalls exist and that they may even on occassion be on airplanes. While I cannot be certain, even a particular group of people, who on occassion has a propensity for living in caves, might even be aware of such a tidbit of information.

Perhaps the woman overreacted, however, intelligence sources does indeed indicate, that the same "cave dwelling group" most certainly is doing homework
and may have done so on domestic flights.
 
This story just seems too sensationalized to not have been splashed all over the evening news! I think we'd have heard about this one on the 'ole tele don't you?
Andy
 
What I mean is that there are details of the story that are not correct. We as pilots have a responsibility to keep from letting details get on an open forum that all can see. That is all. I do not have any idea what happened during the flight. I bet there are truths and non-truths in both stories. Hope this clears that up.:confused:
 
TIS said:
I certainly hope you're NOT referring to ME when you allude to the possibility that MY post is a bogus attempt to find out how the air marshals function aboard aircraft involved in airline operations!

You see, if the intent of your response was to insinuate that the true motivation behind what I posted was to draw out commentary from informed individuals as to the exact nature and scope of security procedures currently in effect, for my own purposes, or in furtherence of some conspiratorial cause, your response is libelous and you could be taken to task for it. I'm going to suggest that you clarify your remarks substantially. It's just the right thing to do!

You need to take a look at the LINK. That's why I included it there in the body of my post! It takes you straight to the KFI (640AM in Los Angeles) website where THEIR reporters Eric Leonard and Jessica Rosenthal have posted their article.

Once again, here it is. GO LOOK AT IT THIS TIME!

http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html

The purpose of my post was, and remains, to demonstrate that regardless of what this woman justifiably or unjustifiably believed was happening aboard that aircraft, when she "freaked out" SHE became the problem. When she then published her account without understanding the things that she SHOULD NOT be privvied to in the first place, she forced a key element of the aviation security system to tip its hand, if ever so slightly.

She is to be censured for that, not commended for her fine journalistic acumen!

The bottom line is that, like certain BBC reporters a few months back when the intelligence on the Iraq/Nigerian yellowcake uraninum connection was being questioned, SHE DIDN'T CHECK HER FACTS and, as a result got it mostly WRONG!

If I have mis-interpreted your remarks then I apologise for this rant but given what you said, you left me no choice but to defend myself - which I WILL do EVERY time.

TIS
Gee,

You must have mis-interpeted my remarks because they are not pointed at you in any way! Sometimes when a post is read without inflection of speech it may come across as something that it is not. Hope this clears up that!
 
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Look, I think the writer (the passenger) asks a good question. If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments. The mere fact that they were indeed musicians does not exclude the possibility that they were practicing an attack. And if there was nothing to worry about, would four air marshalls have been put on that plane? This is a rhetorical question - I am not trying to reveal any secrets here. For air marshalls to stay calm is understandable, but I'm guessing most of the doomed passengers stayed calm enough on 9-11 when they were informed by the terrorists that everything would be ok if they just shut up. Racist? Hardly. Scared out of her wits is more like it. I don't remember any barber shop quartets hijacking airplanes.
 
moscowcfi said:
If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments.
I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.
 
Hugh Jorgan said:
I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.
Credit?
Id say they learned exactly what was needed for their mission..
If the passengers hadnt forced their hand they would have had a 100% mission sucess rate..4 for 4.

Thats better than some of our highly trained military guys can do some days..

Credit them for what they did?
Hell yes!!
To do otherwise would be stupid..

They werent just lucky..

They gathered intel..
The learned the tools needed for the mission..
The practiced/prepared for YEARS!

And when all the elements fell into place they struck.. HARD.

And as time goes on..We will find out more and more that the single greatest failure of 911 was we didnt give them ENOUGH credit and underestimated their capabilities..

This lack of credit is now a part of history and I for one feel its not a matter of if..But WHEN it happens again..

The pieces are already falling into place..

The traveling publics desire for the ability to travel without being subjected to security issues and the governments desire to remain PC with regard to passenger profiling will set the stage for the next event or even events..

Only then will the US get SERIOUS about transportation security and imigration issues as most of the free world has already..

Mike
 
moscowcfi said:
Look, I think the writer (the passenger) asks a good question. If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments. The mere fact that they were indeed musicians does not exclude the possibility that they were practicing an attack. And if there was nothing to worry about, would four air marshalls have been put on that plane? This is a rhetorical question - I am not trying to reveal any secrets here. For air marshalls to stay calm is understandable, but I'm guessing most of the doomed passengers stayed calm enough on 9-11 when they were informed by the terrorists that everything would be ok if they just shut up. Racist? Hardly. Scared out of her wits is more like it. I don't remember any barber shop quartets hijacking airplanes.
I used to teach fifth graders to play instruments. Piece of cake. Anyone can learn to play...just might need those earplugs to live through it.
 
Hugh Jorgan said:
I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.
That's very pithy, but I think my (or rather the author's) point is still perfectly valid. One can be a terrorist AND be able to play a musical instrument. They are not mutually exclusive.
 
moscowcfi said:
That's very pithy, but I think my (or rather the author's) point is still perfectly valid. One can be a terrorist AND be able to play a musical instrument. They are not mutually exclusive.
Pithy?
The word of the days kids..

Mike
 
Syrians flew with expired visas


By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Almost all of the Syrian musicians who were questioned by law-enforcement
officials after exhibiting suspicious behavior aboard a Northwest Airlines
flight were traveling on expired visas.
The 14 men in the band were questioned by several agencies that make up
the Joint Terrorism Task Force after the pilot aboard Flight 327 from
Detroit to Los Angeles on June 29 radioed for law-enforcement assistance.
A spokesman for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) confirmed
that 13 of the 14 musicians entered the country May 30 and the visas expired
June 10, but the men were not detained. The 14th musician is a U.S. resident
and citizen.
The backup band was hired to play with Nour Mehana, widely referred to
as Syria's Wayne Newton, and were flying on one-way tickets with a return
trip on JetBlue.
"The bottom line is there should have been an ICE agent called in to
participate in the questioning, but there wasn't," spokesman Dean Boyd said.
"We believe if an ICE agent were there, they could have detected the visas
had expired."
The Washington Times reported last week that flight crews and air
marshals say terrorists are testing airline security and conducting probes,
and cited several incidents including the one involving the musicians that
set off alarms with security officials.

Since the report, several other pilots and marshals have come forward
and confirmed that groups of men are conducting what looks like dry runs for
a terrorist attack.

"We are being constantly surveilled and probed" by terrorists, one air
marshal said.
A spokesman for Homeland Security disputed reports from crews and
marshals and said they had "no intelligence that terrorists are conducing
test flights on airlines."
"We are aware of suspicious incidents around the country and all
sectors of the economy, each of these incidents are being examined,"
spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.
The musicians, whose in-flight antics caused alarm among the flight crew
and drew the suspicion of air marshals, had P3 entertainment visas and
performed at a number of different venues across the country. They departed
the United States on dates between July 10 and July 15.
"Everything that we and other agencies have found indicates, and we are
very confident in saying, these individuals were not terrorists by any
means," Mr. Boyd said.
The legality of the band and travel dates has not eased the concerns of
air marshals, pilots and some plane passengers, who saw their behavior.
Before September 11, the hijackers were "just flight students," said one
U.S. air marshal. "Everything boils down to creativity and resources. And
the more creative you are, the less resources you need."
None of the 19 hijackers who carried out September 11 attacks were on
terrorism watch lists and all had legally entered the country on tourist or
student visas. Three overstayed their one-year visas.
The September 11 commission report criticized the CIA for not placing
hijackers Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi on the watch list prior to the
attack even after the men were linked to the August 1998 bombing of two U.S.
embassies in East Africa.
Similar activity was reported by flight attendants on American Airlines
Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, on Feb. 15 to New York's John F.
Kennedy Airport. The six men involved worked for a cruise ship and were
carrying musician's cases with instruments.
"The best way to travel is in large groups, no one would give it a
second look," the marshal said.
However passengers and the flight crew aboard Flight 327 were closely
watching the Syrian musicians.
According to passengers Annie and Kevin Jacobsen, the men sat throughout
the plane pretending to be strangers, then stood nearly the entire flight in
congregations of two and three and consecutively fielded in and out of
bathrooms at intervals.
One took a McDonald's bag into the lavatory, then passed it to another
Syrian. The musicians also carried cameras and cellular phones to the
bathroom.
When the pilot announced the landing and to fasten safety belts, seven
of the men jumped up in unison and went to the bathroom. Upon returning to
his seat, one man mouthed the word "no" as he ran his finger across his
throat.
Syria is one of seven countries designated as state sponsors of
terrorism by the State Department, but Damascus has cooperated with the
United States in the fight against al Qaeda, according to the State
Department report for 2003, issued April 29.
"They came from a country known to support terrorism and no one noticed
their visas had expired?" one pilot asked.
Air marshals and pilots say terrorists are actively testing airline
security and the behavior of the musicians mirrors a test run.
"Organized terrorists have been and are doing probes," a second air
marshal said. The Jacobsens' account is credible "because it is eerily
similar to previous incidents that have happened on planes."
The Jacobsens have become the subject of ridicule on some blogs and
criticized in one media report by an unnamed government source, but the
Federal Air Marshals Association (FAMA) issued a statement Sunday backing
the family.
FAMA also called on the government to release the recording of the
pilot's call to air traffic control for law-enforcement assistance.
The unnamed source suggested Mrs. Jacobsen was hysterical and was the
reason that law-enforcement officials were called to the airport.
Pilots and marshals say the flight crew and onboard marshals were
obviously concerned and the Joint Terrorism Task Force would not be deployed
in routine cases of upset or unruly passengers.
"Dealing with upset plane passengers is not exactly new," the pilot
said.
The second air marshal said the Jacobsens did exactly what President
Bush and Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge have asked U.S. citizens to do:
Be vigilant and report suspicious behavior.
I guess it's just a bunch of racist pilots and marshalls, huh?
 
This is what i found when i clicked on the link you provided TIS.... where is the original report?


SECURITY EXPERT MUZZLED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS


LOS ANGELES | July 26, 2004 -- An internet discussion site focused on electronic and information security has, apparently, been shut down by Yahoo! after a posting about major security lapses at the Democratic National Convention.

"In an attempt to muzzle me about the massive security problems I found at the DNC convention site, the government has pressured Yahoo to shutdown my TSCM-L security mailing list, and has had them delete my archive of thousands of messages which is read daily by over 1000 subscribers," James Atkinson posted on the cryptome.org web site Sunday.

Atkinson, a former government technical surveillance countermeasures specialist, is a nationally known expert on information and physical plant security.

The convention begins today in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yahoo! did not immediately return calls for comment.

Links:

> Cryptome web site with Atkinson's information

> Cryptome republishes DNC security concerns

> Cryptome republishes initial DNC security plan, discussed with Boston local government





SHERIFFS SHOOTINGS INCREASE
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS



LOS ANGELES | July 23, 2004 -- The number of shootings involving L.A. County Deputy Sheriffs has risen by about 400-percent compared with last year, Sheriffs officials said Friday.

Since January, there have been sixteen incidents in which deputies fired and a suspect was struck by gunfire, Sheriffs homicide bureau Capt. Ray Peavey said. There were three such incidents during the same time last year.

Deputies have been involved in another nine shootings that turned fatal to date in 2004, Peavey said, compared with nine for all of 2003.

"There's a lot of bad people out there carrying guns around," he said.

"At one point in time, and it wasn't that long ago, [criminals] were more reluctant to pull a gun on a policeman," Peavey said. "But today, that reluctance has seemed to have faded."

"They'd pull a gun on deputies or policemen just as quickly as they'd pull a gun on anyone else."

LAPD officials report 45 officer-involved shootings this year to date, compared with 33 during the same period last year.

Their list, however, includes accidental and dog shootings.

Copyright 2004 KFI NEWS. All rights reserved.
 
MLBWINGBORN said:
Credit?
Id say they learned exactly what was needed for their mission..
Well, Mikey-boy, that's not what I said. Read it again. I didn't say they weren't successful in their mission. I said calling what they did "LEARNING TO FLY" is giving them a little too much credit. There's a difference. Figure it out.
 
Reelbigfish said:
Doesn't sound bogus to me. It sounds like exactly what I said on the thread someone deleted: Overzealous, hysterical racist who wanted to sell her story. Seems like the air marshals and the flight crew were not worried, except about the reported being a hysterical threat herself!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp
Why does this make her a " racist?" You're the one who's jumping to conclusions. It never fails, when a liberal can't back up an argument, they just call you a racist.
 
The guy in first class was the Syrian Wayne Newton. The rest of the guys were his band....

http://www.syrialive.net/music/video_clips/Wahashtini-ISDN[1].ram

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/taylor200407211921.asp

pic_taylor_20040721b.jpg


Since when is it a crime to be in a kick-ass rock -n- roll band?
 
You didn't work for Cathay, did you?

I know someone who would use that handle who worked there for a few years. Before that worked at a commuter in RDD.
TIS
 
Hey Man!

I knew it was you. Didn't want to blow your cover. Rogerio says "hi." I was in Brazil last month. Hope you're doing well. We'll have to talk soon.
 

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