New terrorist threats??? - the Air Marshals speak and tell a slightly different story

[moscowcfi]

Look, I think the writer (the passenger) asks a good question. If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments. The mere fact that they were indeed musicians does not exclude the possibility that they were practicing an attack. And if there was nothing to worry about, would four air marshalls have been put on that plane? This is a rhetorical question - I am not trying to reveal any secrets here. For air marshalls to stay calm is understandable, but I'm guessing most of the doomed passengers stayed calm enough on 9-11 when they were informed by the terrorists that everything would be ok if they just shut up. Racist? Hardly. Scared out of her wits is more like it. I don't remember any barber shop quartets hijacking airplanes.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments.

I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.

Credit?
Id say they learned exactly what was needed for their mission..
If the passengers hadnt forced their hand they would have had a 100% mission sucess rate..4 for 4.

Thats better than some of our highly trained military guys can do some days..

Credit them for what they did?
Hell yes!!
To do otherwise would be stupid..

They werent just lucky..

They gathered intel..
The learned the tools needed for the mission..
The practiced/prepared for YEARS!

And when all the elements fell into place they struck.. HARD.

And as time goes on..We will find out more and more that the single greatest failure of 911 was we didnt give them ENOUGH credit and underestimated their capabilities..

This lack of credit is now a part of history and I for one feel its not a matter of if..But WHEN it happens again..

The pieces are already falling into place..

The traveling publics desire for the ability to travel without being subjected to security issues and the governments desire to remain PC with regard to passenger profiling will set the stage for the next event or even events..

Only then will the US get SERIOUS about transportation security and imigration issues as most of the free world has already..

Mike

 

[English]

Look, I think the writer (the passenger) asks a good question. If a group of terrorists could learn to fly airplanes, could they not learn to play musical instruments. The mere fact that they were indeed musicians does not exclude the possibility that they were practicing an attack. And if there was nothing to worry about, would four air marshalls have been put on that plane? This is a rhetorical question - I am not trying to reveal any secrets here. For air marshalls to stay calm is understandable, but I'm guessing most of the doomed passengers stayed calm enough on 9-11 when they were informed by the terrorists that everything would be ok if they just shut up. Racist? Hardly. Scared out of her wits is more like it. I don't remember any barber shop quartets hijacking airplanes.

I used to teach fifth graders to play instruments. Piece of cake. Anyone can learn to play...just might need those earplugs to live through it.

 

[moscowcfi]

I think calling what they did "learning to fly" is giving them a leeeeeetle too much credit.

That's very pithy, but I think my (or rather the author's) point is still perfectly valid. One can be a terrorist AND be able to play a musical instrument. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

That's very pithy, but I think my (or rather the author's) point is still perfectly valid. One can be a terrorist AND be able to play a musical instrument. They are not mutually exclusive.

Pithy?
The word of the days kids..

Mike

 

[Brett Hull]

Syrians flew with expired visas


By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Almost all of the Syrian musicians who were questioned by law-enforcement
officials after exhibiting suspicious behavior aboard a Northwest Airlines
flight were traveling on expired visas.
The 14 men in the band were questioned by several agencies that make up
the Joint Terrorism Task Force after the pilot aboard Flight 327 from
Detroit to Los Angeles on June 29 radioed for law-enforcement assistance.
A spokesman for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) confirmed
that 13 of the 14 musicians entered the country May 30 and the visas expired
June 10, but the men were not detained. The 14th musician is a U.S. resident
and citizen.
The backup band was hired to play with Nour Mehana, widely referred to
as Syria's Wayne Newton, and were flying on one-way tickets with a return
trip on JetBlue.
"The bottom line is there should have been an ICE agent called in to
participate in the questioning, but there wasn't," spokesman Dean Boyd said.
"We believe if an ICE agent were there, they could have detected the visas
had expired."
The Washington Times reported last week that flight crews and air
marshals say terrorists are testing airline security and conducting probes,
and cited several incidents including the one involving the musicians that
set off alarms with security officials.
Since the report, several other pilots and marshals have come forward
and confirmed that groups of men are conducting what looks like dry runs for
a terrorist attack.
"We are being constantly surveilled and probed" by terrorists, one air
marshal said.
A spokesman for Homeland Security disputed reports from crews and
marshals and said they had "no intelligence that terrorists are conducing
test flights on airlines."
"We are aware of suspicious incidents around the country and all
sectors of the economy, each of these incidents are being examined,"
spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.
The musicians, whose in-flight antics caused alarm among the flight crew
and drew the suspicion of air marshals, had P3 entertainment visas and
performed at a number of different venues across the country. They departed
the United States on dates between July 10 and July 15.
"Everything that we and other agencies have found indicates, and we are
very confident in saying, these individuals were not terrorists by any
means," Mr. Boyd said.
The legality of the band and travel dates has not eased the concerns of
air marshals, pilots and some plane passengers, who saw their behavior.
Before September 11, the hijackers were "just flight students," said one
U.S. air marshal. "Everything boils down to creativity and resources. And
the more creative you are, the less resources you need."
None of the 19 hijackers who carried out September 11 attacks were on
terrorism watch lists and all had legally entered the country on tourist or
student visas. Three overstayed their one-year visas.
The September 11 commission report criticized the CIA for not placing
hijackers Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi on the watch list prior to the
attack even after the men were linked to the August 1998 bombing of two U.S.
embassies in East Africa.
Similar activity was reported by flight attendants on American Airlines
Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, on Feb. 15 to New York's John F.
Kennedy Airport. The six men involved worked for a cruise ship and were
carrying musician's cases with instruments.
"The best way to travel is in large groups, no one would give it a
second look," the marshal said.
However passengers and the flight crew aboard Flight 327 were closely
watching the Syrian musicians.
According to passengers Annie and Kevin Jacobsen, the men sat throughout
the plane pretending to be strangers, then stood nearly the entire flight in
congregations of two and three and consecutively fielded in and out of
bathrooms at intervals.
One took a McDonald's bag into the lavatory, then passed it to another
Syrian. The musicians also carried cameras and cellular phones to the
bathroom.
When the pilot announced the landing and to fasten safety belts, seven
of the men jumped up in unison and went to the bathroom. Upon returning to
his seat, one man mouthed the word "no" as he ran his finger across his
throat.
Syria is one of seven countries designated as state sponsors of
terrorism by the State Department, but Damascus has cooperated with the
United States in the fight against al Qaeda, according to the State
Department report for 2003, issued April 29.
"They came from a country known to support terrorism and no one noticed
their visas had expired?" one pilot asked.
Air marshals and pilots say terrorists are actively testing airline
security and the behavior of the musicians mirrors a test run.
"Organized terrorists have been and are doing probes," a second air
marshal said. The Jacobsens' account is credible "because it is eerily
similar to previous incidents that have happened on planes."
The Jacobsens have become the subject of ridicule on some blogs and
criticized in one media report by an unnamed government source, but the
Federal Air Marshals Association (FAMA) issued a statement Sunday backing
the family.
FAMA also called on the government to release the recording of the
pilot's call to air traffic control for law-enforcement assistance.
The unnamed source suggested Mrs. Jacobsen was hysterical and was the
reason that law-enforcement officials were called to the airport.
Pilots and marshals say the flight crew and onboard marshals were
obviously concerned and the Joint Terrorism Task Force would not be deployed
in routine cases of upset or unruly passengers.
"Dealing with upset plane passengers is not exactly new," the pilot
said.
The second air marshal said the Jacobsens did exactly what President
Bush and Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge have asked U.S. citizens to do:
Be vigilant and report suspicious behavior.

I guess it's just a bunch of racist pilots and marshalls, huh?

 

[RJPilott]

This is what i found when i clicked on the link you provided TIS.... where is the original report?


SECURITY EXPERT MUZZLED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS

LOS ANGELES | July 26, 2004 -- An internet discussion site focused on electronic and information security has, apparently, been shut down by Yahoo! after a posting about major security lapses at the Democratic National Convention.

"In an attempt to muzzle me about the massive security problems I found at the DNC convention site, the government has pressured Yahoo to shutdown my TSCM-L security mailing list, and has had them delete my archive of thousands of messages which is read daily by over 1000 subscribers," James Atkinson posted on the cryptome.org web site Sunday.

Atkinson, a former government technical surveillance countermeasures specialist, is a nationally known expert on information and physical plant security.

The convention begins today in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yahoo! did not immediately return calls for comment.

Links:

> Cryptome web site with Atkinson's information

> Cryptome republishes DNC security concerns

> Cryptome republishes initial DNC security plan, discussed with Boston local government





SHERIFFS SHOOTINGS INCREASE
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS


LOS ANGELES | July 23, 2004 -- The number of shootings involving L.A. County Deputy Sheriffs has risen by about 400-percent compared with last year, Sheriffs officials said Friday.

Since January, there have been sixteen incidents in which deputies fired and a suspect was struck by gunfire, Sheriffs homicide bureau Capt. Ray Peavey said. There were three such incidents during the same time last year.

Deputies have been involved in another nine shootings that turned fatal to date in 2004, Peavey said, compared with nine for all of 2003.

"There's a lot of bad people out there carrying guns around," he said.

"At one point in time, and it wasn't that long ago, [criminals] were more reluctant to pull a gun on a policeman," Peavey said. "But today, that reluctance has seemed to have faded."

"They'd pull a gun on deputies or policemen just as quickly as they'd pull a gun on anyone else."

LAPD officials report 45 officer-involved shootings this year to date, compared with 33 during the same period last year.

Their list, however, includes accidental and dog shootings.

Copyright 2004 KFI NEWS. All rights reserved.

 

[moscowcfi]

Pithy?
The word of the days kids..

Mike

Huh??

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Credit?
Id say they learned exactly what was needed for their mission..

Well, Mikey-boy, that's not what I said. Read it again. I didn't say they weren't successful in their mission. I said calling what they did "LEARNING TO FLY" is giving them a little too much credit. There's a difference. Figure it out.