New Rest Requirements?

[Cornelius]

I just had a fed ride on one of our flights and he was saying something about the FAA working on some new rest requirements. I didn't catch if it was 121 or 135 or what. Just wondering if anybody else heard anything?

C-ya

 

[chperplt]

They have been talking about changing the rules for a while. When I did my graduate thesis on flight crew fatigue earlier this year, some of the feds I interviewed said it would be another year or two before anything changed.

Some of the things that will probably change is the "legal to start-legal to finish" rule will go away. 8 hours max for normal operations. I was also told that the 121 carriers using 135 regs for flight time limits will go away as well. Everyone (121) will be 30/100/1000...

 

[Vinman]

PS...the part of the regs that allow 121 carriers to operate under 135 duty time regs applies to carriers with a/c configuratins of 30 seats or fewer.

 

[Cornelius]

The fed said they just had a big meeting about the new rest regs so it looks like we may see it in the near future. I'm glad I didn't learn the rest regs right the first time, maybe I can get the new regs down!

 

[acaTerry]

The airlines will find a way to stop it. Besides, it will take at least 2 more crashes with fatigue as a "contributing factor" and lots of negative press to get anything done....remember American in Little Rock? Came and went...still beating pilots into the ground.

 

[chperplt]

The airlines will find a way to stop it. Besides, it will take at least 2 more crashes with fatigue as a "contributing factor" and lots of negative press to get anything done....remember American in Little Rock? Came and went...still beating pilots into the ground.

The airlines are doing their bests to stop it, but it's not going to work this time.

The changes that are being made now are due in large part to Little Rock as well as the thousands of ASRS forms that have been submitted over the last few many years.

If you ever get a chance, hop over to the ASRS site and do a keyword search on fatigue. Some of the narratives are absolutely frightening.

 

[acaTerry]

Chperplt,
What is the site address?

 

[chperplt]

I'll look for the address....

Here is some of what I used in my thesis..

·After 3 days of alternating normal and "back side of the clock" flying, we landed at Sitka, AK enroute to Juneau. Upon taxiing out at SIT, SIT Radio advised us of a C-130 on VFR downwind. We both saw the traffic. Since our flight from SIT-JNU was very short, the Capt briefed the approach to JNU while we were taxiing out at SIT. As we approached the runway hold line, I noticed he wasn’t slowing. I asked him if he was "going to hold." Thinking of the approach into JNU, he replied that he’d hold only if the weather was below minimums. I was referring to the runway hold line. We taxied onto the runway in front of the C-130 which was now on final. Fortunately, there was ample time for us to clear the runway. Not to be outdone, on takeoff, when the Capt called for gear up, I raised the flap handle. Again, fortunately, I caught the mistake immediately and returned the flap handle to the takeoff position before the flaps moved. These events happened with an experienced Captain and an F/O with 25 years in jets. We were both tired. Real tired.

.On a trip involving 4 back-to-back continuous duty overnights (i.e., Monday on at 2030 Fly to SGF at 2230, Tuesday on at 0500 Back in STL 0815 On duty all night, then given 8 hours during day to get legal rest 4 days in a row (a normal regional schedule)) on Day 5 last Flight back to STL 25 minutes after departure both F/O and Capt. sound asleep, auto pilot leveled at 16,000. Woke up when A/C entered convective activity (towering cumulous) and hit Mod to SVR turbulence with airspeed at redline, since climb power still set! No Exaggeration Whatsoever!!

·This was the 3rd day of a 3-day trip; the 3rd day involving 9 legs to be flown in an approximate 11-hour period. Mid way through the 8th leg (after having missed numerous radio calls & having to request repeats on several calls) the F/O exceeded an assigned level off altitude. We then first realized that we were both exhausted to the fatigue point (9 legs, high daytime Florida temperatures). Being at an out station, facing the possibility of canceling the final leg & the repercussions of declaring fatigued, we flew the 9th leg to our domicile fatigued. Although I am ashamed to admit it, it is the norm among most all the pilots at XYZ. If you don’t think "continuous day trips" & "reduced rest" trips are the norm, guess again. These are THE MOST ABUSED of the FAA rules within the regional ranks. And our company has told us (point blank) that they have no intention of changing. While I know I’m fatigued, yes, I do fear reprisal by my employer if I cancel a flight due to fatigue. It may not happen then, but may on my next checkride!

·0537 URX Got up out of F/O’s seat to stretch and utilize the first class laundry. Asked the Captain if he wanted anything; he indicates water. Returned to cockpit after 3-5 minutes and set water next to Captain. Captain did not move and was staring straight ahead. Got on radio to see if ATC was calling - pretty quiet. Waited to see how long it would take for Captain to wake up. It took another 2-3 minutes. Captain startled himself awake and said, "Thanks for the water." He never knew he fell asleep. This stuff happens all the time on our "nite flights

·On the fourth night in a row of a 4 day ID with all four days of "backside of the clock" flying, cumulative fatigue led to this situation. Both the Captain and F/O fell fast asleep during climbout from ORD after a 0200 hrs takeoff. As S/O, I flew the aircraft on autopilot and handled all the radio calls all the way to destination, waking the pilots during initial descent. Freighter. No. Pax. No F/As. Cumulative fatigue was enormous. "Backside" flying needs more protection. DFW (2200) - ORD (0200) - DFW -- 4 days in a row.

·We taxied clear of the active runway and the captain called for the after landing checklist. I inadvertently closed both fuel shut off valves instead of shutting off the fuel boost pumps. Both engines were shut down and we were towed into parking. This happened at about 0200Z. It was my mistake but 12-1/2 hours and a short night’s sleep the night before didn’t help. P.S. Management doesn’t care about safety; they just want to meet legal limits so they can’t get sued.

·My squawk is a reduced rest of 8+17 hrs. By the time you include transportation to/from hotel and time to fall asleep and morning preparations you typically get 6 hrs. in bed. Also, factor in that we went from CST to EST a 530 wake up is actually at 4:30 biological clock wake up. Every time I do this the whole next day I don’t feel rested. I make numerous small mistakes and seek a place to take a nap to make up for my sleep deficit. The law of averages will catch me and I feel that I’m gonna make a terrible mistake due to lack of alertness precipitated by a reduced rest overnight.

 

[chperplt]

Most of the ASRS database is in Adobe format...

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets.htm


This is specific to fatigue

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets/com_fatigue.pdf