New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations

[Jiminmem]

If they are changing the minimum requirements to 1500 hours and an ATP, I believe they should allow military time as a quailfier. Especially if any college or Gulfstream like program can be used instead as a way around the hour requirements. I'm sure if would be an easy change, probably something we should lobby for.

I'm straight civilian, but understand their 1000 hour pilots are quite different from a civilian 1000 hours. Not to start a war, just there training is much more intense. Do some make in through that have no business being in the cockpit, sure, but a much smaller percentage.

 

[pipejockey]

I have nothing against higher pilot pay. I just do not believe the present economic business model will support it. We have to remember many of these paxs buying low-fare tickets may elect not to travel at higher prices.

Yip, you probably have not thought the economic conditions have been able to support higher wages than are currently paid since 2000, am I correct? Those economic times will never be seen again in this industry. Not as long as aircraft are being powered with a finite amount of oil that is running out.

But you didn't address the point I made. How are pilot positions going to be filled if the military's tougher entrance requirements and completion standards are brought to the airlines? As you know, back in 2008 when the industry announced the cutbacks, due to high oil prices, the regionals were scraping the bottom of the barrel and hiring freshly licensed commercial pilots. Thats 250 hours. I actually heard of a 180 hour new hire, I guess that is the time required at one of those part141 pilot factories for a commercial. So how do you raise standards when they can't even get what was required back before 1999 or so of 1500/500 without raising pay? I say the industry needs to bite the bullet and raise wages at the airlines, expecially regionlas and if it takes a capacity cut due to higher fares then so be it. The traveling public can't have everything. They shout they want well trained and professional pilots, they shout they want low fares, they shout they want frequency, they shout that want larger planes, they shout they want better service, they shout, they shout, they shout, they shout and they shout!!!! All the while they are paying the same amount to travel as they did in the 1970's. You could fly JFK-LAX Roundtrip for $200. Guess what, 30 years later it's still 200 bucks. PATHETIC!!!! Yet upper management's and the executives pay has increased many times beyond that of inflation, while our has gone down many times LESS than inflation. Why is it the industries current economic condition continues to support their over inflated wages but we can't even get back 2001 wages?

 

[pipejockey]

No one in their right mind can expect the best and brightest among us to choose a profession where you shell out 50 to 100 grand for a 4 year degree and flight training and not be guaranteed a good wage right from start. Especially when you are likely to get stuck at a regional for your entire career.
__________________
Embry Riddle would disagree with this statement. I know someone who is paying to have his son do just that. Sorry, but the reality is we have thousands of qualified pilots on the street today and they would love to have any job they can get. I saw our last furloughed class turning in their books after 9/11 in 2001. They won't be back for many years. That is reality.

Then why did the regionals lower their mins from 1500/500 to 300/50 in 2008 when hiring suddenly stopped due to the cutback announcements. And who are these furloughs you speak of from 9-11 that won't be back for many years? Unless you are at AA I know of no furloughs from 9-11 that haven;t been offered recall everywhere else.

 

[pipejockey]

$100K worth of training and a college degree is not required to make it in this career. I have seen too many succeed without it.

Yip, when are you going to get off your rhetoric about not needing a college degree? To get to a major airline without a 4 year degree is 4%. Check and see how many guys at the majors don't have college degrees. It's 4%! Now the regionals and 135 operators are another story. But no one gets into this profession for those ratty jobs. They are supposed to be "paying your dues" jobs, but since mainline pilots won't do whats necessary to get the rj's on their property, the ratty jobs are all most are going to have in this inustry. And no matter how many times these new guys are told, they just have to find out for themselves all the while they could actually be making something of themselves in something with a future.

 

[pilotyip]

mis read

Yip, when are you going to get off your rhetoric about not needing a college degree? ..................... out for themselves all the while they could actually be making something of themselves in something with a future.

misread, going to a 4 yr school right out of high and getting your comm/inst/mel as part of degree program and being saddled with a $100K of debt is not the only way to enter this career. Unless the family pays for it and it becomes free. I have never said you do not need a college degree. But the college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in French History. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, do your on-line degree, at age 25 have a BS/BA and 3000-4000 hours of flt time. You cannot build real flight time while going to school full time.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I think the new requirement for -121 pilots should be an ATP and a PhD (or MD). Obviously, having a PhD would automatically make the individual a better pilot! I think that USA Jet just started requiring a PhD!

cliff
NBO

 

[pilotyip]

no Phd

Hi!

I think the new requirement for -121 pilots should be an ATP and a PhD (or MD). Obviously, having a PhD would automatically make the individual a better pilot! I think that USA Jet just started requiring a PhD!

cliff
NBO

don't mean nuttin, Phd's are easier to get than the ATP. Pay your fee, get your "B". We had a Phd pilot went 1.5 hrs with no comm while discussing the meaning of life with the other pilot.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah RH, I was just pulling your chain!!!

cliff
NBO
PS-I was in Juba, Sudan a few days ago, and heard this: "Ethiopian XXXX, the cows have now moved away, so you are cleared for takeoff runway 31." Not very nice...cows on the runway!

 

[pilotyip]

steak dinner after the collision?

Hi!

Yeah RH, I was just pulling your chain!!!

cliff
NBO
PS-I was in Juba, Sudan a few days ago, and heard this: "Ethiopian XXXX, the cows have now moved away, so you are cleared for takeoff runway 31." Not very nice...cows on the runway!

think about the up side

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Hi!

Yeah RH, I was just pulling your chain!!!

cliff
NBO
PS-I was in Juba, Sudan a few days ago, and heard this: "Ethiopian XXXX, the cows have now moved away, so you are cleared for takeoff runway 31." Not very nice...cows on the runway!

Sounds like they missed a great chance to pick up some extra free dinners.