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New hires: Avoid Envoy at all costs.....

I Hate Freight

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
494
Total Time
A lot.
You will NEVER upgrade? You will NEVER be off an abusive, corrupt and extremely adversarial reserve system. The schedulers HATE pilots with a passion! You will NEVER flow to AA. Pilots here five years will not flow for another 5-7 years. Pilots here ten years have at least three years more to wait. It's a joke.

User "Boing" on Eagle Lounge put together a great list of all the good things that have happened at Envoy (the original AE) since bankruptcy in 2011...

2011 - AMR files for bankruptcy
Apr 2012 - American Eagle closes SJU base
May 2012 ? American Eagle pilots begin bankruptcy negotiations for a new concessionary contract that would include a new sweet fleet plan.
Aug 2012 - AA and US Airways begin talks
Sep 2012 - American Eagle closes LAX base
Sep 2012 - SkyWest given contract to operate 23 CRJ-200s out of LAX
Oct 2012 ? American Eagle pilots approve concessionary bankruptcy contract with the sweet fleet plan language removed and changed to a gentleman?s agreement
Nov 2012 ? 3,141 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2013 - Republic granted 47 EMB 175s with an additional 47 options. Envoy pilots receive 0 aircraft in exchange for their bankruptcy concessions
Feb 2013 - AA and US Airways begin formal merger
Feb 2013 - ExpresJet begins operating CRJs from DFW
May 2013 - 2,994 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
July 2013 - Pedro Fabregas appointed president of American Eagle
July 2013 ? American Eagle?s pilot union rejects a B-Scale proposal as directed by ALPA policy. Management specifically references Endeavor's lower costs as the reason for additional concession (See Jan 2015)
Sep 2013 - Pilots at PSA, supported by ALPA, approve industry bottom contract that includes a B-Scale to ensure they receive American Eagle aircraft
Dec 2013 - AA and US Airways merge and American Airlines exits bankruptcy
Dec 2013 - AA orders 30 CRJ 900 for PSA with option for 40 more
Dec 2013 - AA orders 60 EMB 175s with options for 90 more. These orders are then used to threaten American Eagle pilots
Dec 2013 ? Just 10 days after exiting bankruptcy management returns for additional concessions to honor the sweet fleet plan.
Dec 2013 ? 2,778 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
Jan 2014 - American Eagle renamed envoy air
Mar 2014 - envoy pilots reject a second attempt at another concessionary contract
Mar 2014 - envoy pilots notified that they would not fly Chautauqua ORD flying when ORD VP drags new SkyWest jet out and parks it in front of ORD crew room
Apr 2014 -2,604 pilots on envoy seniority list
May 2014 - Under armed guard PSA?s new CRJ 900 is unveiled??in DFW
May 2014 - Mesa awarded 6 CRJ-900?s without concessionary demands
Jun 2014 - Compass awarded 20 EMB 175s without concessionary demands
Sep 2014 - envoy pilots notified that AA will transfer all 47 of its CRJ 700s to PSA
Oct 2014 - envoy begins to close MIA crew base
Nov 2014 - Mesa begins DFW operations and will become the largest operator of regional jets in DFW
Nov 2014 - envoy pilots notified that 50 jets will be transferred from envoy airlines to help solve staffing. 20 to Piedmont, 15 to TSA and 15 to ExpressJet. Oddly, this move backfires and attrition sky rockets
Dec 2014 - envoy pilots accept concessionary contract with the promise of 40 EMB 175s and 90 options.
Dec 2014 - AA awards employees 4% raises, not to include envoy pilots
Jan 2015 - 2,370 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2015 - Endeavor pilots receive $80,000 retention bonus (See July 2013)
Feb 2015 - PSA given 24 additional CRJ-900 options, reducing envoy?s promised options by 24.
Feb 2015 - Mesa orders seven additional CRJ 900s, reducing envoy?s promised options by an additional 7. The agreement also includes an undisclosed number of options to purchase additional CRJ900 aircraft that would also reduce envoy?s promised options even further.
Feb 2015 - Flow through pilots are notified that the flow through has been temporarily stopped
Feb 2015 - envoy pilots notified that the company will close its NY EMB base with the CRJ base to follow.
Feb 2015 - Compass begins flying EMB-175s from American Eagle's old LAX base

Envoy's current known future? TWO bases, ORD and DFW. 88 E-145s, 40 E-175 plus, maybe, 34 options. At best, total fleet count if no additional options are given away, the remaining available options are delivered and no additional aircraft outsourced or parked, 162 aircraft with roughly 1800 pilots, down from 3200 and losing 30-50 over month.

Go somewhere else.
 
Last edited:

Fliteidol

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Posts
267
Total Time
1
I Hate Freight. That is a very good summary and compulsory reading for anyone tempted to go to Envoy. I was at the toxic soup that was AE many moons. Toxic from the Simmons/
Wings West et al merger. Toxic from a 10 year contract. Toxic from the aborted flow through that turned into a flood back. Still toxic management and worse than ever according to the folks I know that stuck it out. Still to this day the best group of professional pilots I have the the honor to fly with. They deserve so much better than the meat grinder AMR put them through. The choice is yours but you have been warned.
 

atpcliff

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
4,260
Total Time
6000
The timelines you posted are not realistic.

Going forward, there is a big monthly loss of pilots per month at Envoy. That will speed everything up. I also believe the negative monthly pilot hiring situation will get worse (for HR) as the pilot shortage gets worse and worse.

Just today, SWA eliminated their 737 type requirement, in part because of their deteriorating pilot hiring situation, and Japan raised their age limit to 68, also because of the Pilot Shortage.
 

Theoden

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Posts
14
Total Time
2500
The timelines you posted are not realistic.

Going forward, there is a big monthly loss of pilots per month at Envoy. That will speed everything up. I also believe the negative monthly pilot hiring situation will get worse (for HR) as the pilot shortage gets worse and worse.

Just today, SWA eliminated their 737 type requirement, in part because of their deteriorating pilot hiring situation, and Japan raised their age limit to 68, also because of the Pilot Shortage.

A monthly loss of pilots does not give you movement unless you can hire.
 

BentOver

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Posts
1,133
Total Time
6
Boo freakin hoo.... You don't get to flow after 5 years....big fvcking deal....

Wanna know how many guys I know who spent 10 or more years as an SIC at a regional before they had these flow through contracts. I used to work at a regional where a 15 yr guy was a fairly junior captain....
 

145BOSS

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
170
Total Time
5400+
Question from an outsider, did the flow to AA really stop in February? Was the flow a contractual right? How many per month were they taking?
 

TheRaven

Runway Sweeper 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Posts
208
Total Time
14000+
Question from an outsider, did the flow to AA really stop in February? Was the flow a contractual right? How many per month were they taking?

No...once street hires resume there will be more flow. Classes at AA right now are all returning furlough pilots who had previously deferred returning, but took advantage of the 2 year length of service clause in the new agreement. The flow will return in probably May or June.
 

OPECJet

1700
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Posts
2,312
Total Time
5K
Boo freakin hoo.... You don't get to flow after 5 years....big fvcking deal....

Wanna know how many guys I know who spent 10 or more years as an SIC at a regional before they had these flow through contracts. I used to work at a regional where a 15 yr guy was a fairly junior captain....
It's a new day, and truth is time dated. His complaining is relevant for the current conditions, although it should also be put into perspective.
 

atpcliff

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
4,260
Total Time
6000
A monthly loss of pilots does not give you movement unless you can hire.

It does if the pilots leaving are above you in seniority.
 

SpauldingSmails

Aboard the sloop.
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Posts
1,278
Total Time
>7000
Cliff,

What I believe Theoden is talking about is "the incredible shrinking airline" - if the airline cannot effectively backfill for their losses the airline will have to downsize their fleet to what can be staffed. Thus, although you may be climbing closer to the ceiling, you're never getting any further from the floor.
 
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