TurbineDriver
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- Dec 26, 2002
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New Freedom Air Class Date
- Thread starter TurbineDriver
- Start date
- Watchers 7
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WSurf
The Smack Down!
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2002
- Posts
- 3,690
Sure I would!!! I would fly a C-150 if the money was right. This is a profession, try and get paid like one. However you must feel that since its a sleek RJ, well hell I will fly it for Dog **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** wages. You're kind of thinkin makes me sick. Enjoy your RJ, and you crappy pay check (you both deserve each other)!
Ditch-LRDriver
Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2003
- Posts
- 13
Correct me if I'm wrong. But with the new TA, Freedom ceases to exist. They are ALPA now and are all on the same seniority list. No no CCAir guys are going to be put on any list. No matter what they fly. (i.e CRJ700/900) The list only carries the name of the people who interviewed or accepted a position with Freedom, pre-TA.
--03M
--03M
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
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- Dec 19, 2002
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Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 882
Jetscream32
Well-known member
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- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 171
Freedom assumptions
The Freedom certificate, as well as the CC Air certificate, is still alive and well. I've heard (rumor, maybe true) that Mesa has acquired about 6 CRJ's in the past month (new 700's, used 200's), and is putting them all on the Freedom certificate. Furthermore, all new CRJ crews are being trained on the Freedom certificate. These would include Mesa guys who may or may not have voted for the new Mesa pilot contract as well as former CC Air guys.
So, for MESA guys (or someone else informed): is there any economic reason for YV managment to use the Freedom certificate for CRJ ops instead of the Mesa one?
For all others, realize that the jet may say 'Freedom' on it, the pilot's ID may say 'Freedom' on it, and he may use the Freedom callsign (which is what?), but the pilot could be a former CC Air capt., a guy who didn't even vote on the new Mesa contract, a guy who has lost his job protecting 'the bar' for your pilot group(not just struck or was furloughed, no, HE LOST HIS JOB and his retirement package), a guy who might have more PIC time than your whole crew's TT combined b/c he's been flying airlines since before you graduated from highschool (CC Air guys were pretty senior, on average). Many of the new Freedom guys are the guys who have been through hell and back and they deserve your respect, not your flippant uniformed 'tude.
Go get yourself a Freedom 'scab-list'. Soon, that will be the only way to tell who's who at Freedom anymore. Some of them are not worth your time (original Freedom guys, the list), some are guilty only of signing a contract that could have been better (former Mesa and Air Midwest guys), and some lost everything in a vain effort to protect your hide (CC Air).
Don't assume what you don't know.
The Freedom certificate, as well as the CC Air certificate, is still alive and well. I've heard (rumor, maybe true) that Mesa has acquired about 6 CRJ's in the past month (new 700's, used 200's), and is putting them all on the Freedom certificate. Furthermore, all new CRJ crews are being trained on the Freedom certificate. These would include Mesa guys who may or may not have voted for the new Mesa pilot contract as well as former CC Air guys.
So, for MESA guys (or someone else informed): is there any economic reason for YV managment to use the Freedom certificate for CRJ ops instead of the Mesa one?
For all others, realize that the jet may say 'Freedom' on it, the pilot's ID may say 'Freedom' on it, and he may use the Freedom callsign (which is what?), but the pilot could be a former CC Air capt., a guy who didn't even vote on the new Mesa contract, a guy who has lost his job protecting 'the bar' for your pilot group(not just struck or was furloughed, no, HE LOST HIS JOB and his retirement package), a guy who might have more PIC time than your whole crew's TT combined b/c he's been flying airlines since before you graduated from highschool (CC Air guys were pretty senior, on average). Many of the new Freedom guys are the guys who have been through hell and back and they deserve your respect, not your flippant uniformed 'tude.
Go get yourself a Freedom 'scab-list'. Soon, that will be the only way to tell who's who at Freedom anymore. Some of them are not worth your time (original Freedom guys, the list), some are guilty only of signing a contract that could have been better (former Mesa and Air Midwest guys), and some lost everything in a vain effort to protect your hide (CC Air).
Don't assume what you don't know.
Some details.
The Contract was signed off by DW about 3 weeks ago, it's currently being implemented.
The reason they are still flying under the Freedom certificate is pure inertia as far as I know. It makes little economic sense to fly aircraft for the same company under 3 separate certificates. If it does, nobody I know can figure out how it does. In fact it costs Mesa Air Group a heck of a lot of money since they have to have 3 completely seperate management organizations (3 chief pilots, 3 directors of operations, 3 separate dispatches, 3 separate crew scheculers, etc..). To me and everyone I've talked to it would make a lot more sense to combine all the certificates and eliminate all that wasteful redundancy, but sense and the management of this company's management rarely go hand in hand. Of course this whole certificate issue is an FAA thing, another organization notorious for not making sense. It may be that Mesa can't fly the 700/900 on their certificate without the FAA saying 45 Ave Marias, singing 10 islamic hymns and ritually sacrificing a chicken over the paperwork first.
Right now as far as I know, none of the ALPA Mesa guys are flying under Freedom yet. It's been about a month since they began allowing ALPA folks into the 700/900 groundschool and that's probably too short a time for them to get done all the training and IOE to get on line. So probably all the pilots actually flying Freedom planes right now are still the jerks that robbed the rest of us of whatever negotiating leverage we might have had. That will change very quickly though. There will be a lot of union guys taking over the seats from Freedom in the next few months. About forty are in various stages of the transition class right now.
None of the CCAir guys are back to work yet. The only ones who've come back in are the ones starting RJ training this month. They will be coming back in spurts as the classes open up.
The callsign for Freedom is "Freedom Air". There is still a short window open where the person on the radio is pretty much guaranteed to be one of the jerks. After that, they will start getting flushed out of their comfy seats. So you can still get in a little uniformed 'tude for a little while yet if that's what floats your boat. After that window closes, save your chilly looks for the guys on the list. All the mesa guys have those lists, believe me and they are floating around everywhere else too.
The Contract was signed off by DW about 3 weeks ago, it's currently being implemented.
The reason they are still flying under the Freedom certificate is pure inertia as far as I know. It makes little economic sense to fly aircraft for the same company under 3 separate certificates. If it does, nobody I know can figure out how it does. In fact it costs Mesa Air Group a heck of a lot of money since they have to have 3 completely seperate management organizations (3 chief pilots, 3 directors of operations, 3 separate dispatches, 3 separate crew scheculers, etc..). To me and everyone I've talked to it would make a lot more sense to combine all the certificates and eliminate all that wasteful redundancy, but sense and the management of this company's management rarely go hand in hand. Of course this whole certificate issue is an FAA thing, another organization notorious for not making sense. It may be that Mesa can't fly the 700/900 on their certificate without the FAA saying 45 Ave Marias, singing 10 islamic hymns and ritually sacrificing a chicken over the paperwork first.
Right now as far as I know, none of the ALPA Mesa guys are flying under Freedom yet. It's been about a month since they began allowing ALPA folks into the 700/900 groundschool and that's probably too short a time for them to get done all the training and IOE to get on line. So probably all the pilots actually flying Freedom planes right now are still the jerks that robbed the rest of us of whatever negotiating leverage we might have had. That will change very quickly though. There will be a lot of union guys taking over the seats from Freedom in the next few months. About forty are in various stages of the transition class right now.
None of the CCAir guys are back to work yet. The only ones who've come back in are the ones starting RJ training this month. They will be coming back in spurts as the classes open up.
The callsign for Freedom is "Freedom Air". There is still a short window open where the person on the radio is pretty much guaranteed to be one of the jerks. After that, they will start getting flushed out of their comfy seats. So you can still get in a little uniformed 'tude for a little while yet if that's what floats your boat. After that window closes, save your chilly looks for the guys on the list. All the mesa guys have those lists, believe me and they are floating around everywhere else too.
Jetscream32
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 171
THE CHICKEN LIVES
Stillaboo,
I don't know if you were there when the captain, now retired, who flew the last CCair flight said it but it still rings loud and clear in my head: "They can take away our airplanes, they can take away our contract, and they can take away our name but CCair is something that is in our hearts and they can never take that away."
No matter what uniform I put on or how many jumpseats I get denied because of the name of my employer I will always be a CCair pilot.
Stillaboo,
I don't know if you were there when the captain, now retired, who flew the last CCair flight said it but it still rings loud and clear in my head: "They can take away our airplanes, they can take away our contract, and they can take away our name but CCair is something that is in our hearts and they can never take that away."
No matter what uniform I put on or how many jumpseats I get denied because of the name of my employer I will always be a CCair pilot.
SanJuanPlebe
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Posts
- 30
Freedom-Mesa
Folks,
Get yourself a Freedom List today. Go to the yahoo.com and groups, under freemesaairlines club and in the files section is the current Freedom scab list. Those are the folks that crossed over before we brought Freedom back into the fold. Direct your ire at them. They're the reason we had to settle for less at Mesa.
I'm sorry we've had to muddy the waters by bringing good ALPA dues paying holdouts and furloughed CCAir Kids into the mix, however, it kills Freedom Airlines and these folks should be thanked for being willing to step up to plate and bringing these jobs back into the ALPA fold.
As for you Mesa bashers, I've thought long and hard and have tried to understand your position. But giving my best efforts, I haven't been able to justify the phrase "honey, go on down the Walmart and stock up on the Top Ramen because I'm unemployed and off to walk the line becaues my contract proposal doesn't meet the Air Wisconsin, Comair, or ACA standards...never mind we've got enhancements in almost EVERY section except minimum bid guarantee...which didn't change"
Try that phrase on for size, given today's current environment and see if it works for you. Oh, and don't forget, you'll get to bring back 132 CCAir folks that took a bullettfor you and refused to sign a TRUE concessionary agreement.....honestly see if this works for you. And then judge us as doing the wrong thing.....
Folks,
Get yourself a Freedom List today. Go to the yahoo.com and groups, under freemesaairlines club and in the files section is the current Freedom scab list. Those are the folks that crossed over before we brought Freedom back into the fold. Direct your ire at them. They're the reason we had to settle for less at Mesa.
I'm sorry we've had to muddy the waters by bringing good ALPA dues paying holdouts and furloughed CCAir Kids into the mix, however, it kills Freedom Airlines and these folks should be thanked for being willing to step up to plate and bringing these jobs back into the ALPA fold.
As for you Mesa bashers, I've thought long and hard and have tried to understand your position. But giving my best efforts, I haven't been able to justify the phrase "honey, go on down the Walmart and stock up on the Top Ramen because I'm unemployed and off to walk the line becaues my contract proposal doesn't meet the Air Wisconsin, Comair, or ACA standards...never mind we've got enhancements in almost EVERY section except minimum bid guarantee...which didn't change"
Try that phrase on for size, given today's current environment and see if it works for you. Oh, and don't forget, you'll get to bring back 132 CCAir folks that took a bullettfor you and refused to sign a TRUE concessionary agreement.....honestly see if this works for you. And then judge us as doing the wrong thing.....
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