New Chief Pilots at ASA

[ohplease!]

This last paragraph indicates that you may be out of touch. We MAY have a good CPO office now--the jury is still out and the cows have not come home. What rules do they know? They MAY know the same rules YOU and I are suppose to know. When you don't know the rules that you are suppose to know, you basically yield power to someone else--maybe, a CP. The CP should have a good relationship with the GO, they work for the G.O. and were ordained by the d.o.--and they jump through his hoops and deliver his message. They don't work with managment--they are management, or their pawns--Geesh! New culture? It's more like a new honeymoon--one we have been on before and the CPO has nothing to do with it. They have no power--they work for Julius Caesar!

typical union hardliner nutjob....feel free to move on. Nobody wants you to be so mistreated. You deserve much better than you could ever get here. You are such a wonderful person and a fantastic employee. Surely some other company somewhere can see you true worth.

 

[Speedtape]

typical union hardliner nutjob....feel free to move on. Nobody wants you to be so mistreated. You deserve much better than you could ever get here. You are such a wonderful person and a fantastic employee. Surely some other company somewhere can see you true worth.

Union Hardliner? Hardly! Kool-Aid drinker? Never, not from management bowl or the Union. Move on? It's not different at any other airline, some better, some worse--according to friends and fellow former employees. I do deserve much better, and so do YOU! If your standard of expectation is of anything less, then you probably will consistently settle for something less. A wonderful person? Generally, I treat others the way I want to be treated, but I am not an unhealthy people pleaser at my expense. Fantastic employee? Like most of my fellow professionals, and probably you, I give 150% at what I do because of work ethic, personal pride, and personal responsibility in my everyday endeavors. However, my fault is I expect the same for those for whom I work.

Finally, I know and am comfortable with my self-worth. And from reading your posts, it's clear you know yours. At this company, it's the employees, for the most part, that have made it a good place to work, despite the other issues. I choose to stay, but I will never settle for being middle of the pack and will demand no more of others than I would demand of myself. But, I will not settle for mediocracy--ever!

 

[wms]

This last paragraph indicates that you may be out of touch. We MAY have a good CPO office now--the jury is still out and the cows have not come home. What rules do they know? They MAY know the same rules YOU and I are suppose to know. When you don't know the rules that you are suppose to know, you basically yield power to someone else--maybe, a CP. The CP should have a good relationship with the GO, they work for the G.O. and were ordained by the d.o.--and they jump through his hoops and deliver his message. They don't work with managment--they are management, or their pawns--Geesh! New culture? It's more like a new honeymoon--one we have been on before and the CPO has nothing to do with it. They have no power--they work for Julius Caesar!

Relax! I've been here a long time and know we have better advocates now than at any time since I've been here. When I said rules, I meant the contract, and in my case they've interpretted it without an agenda for either side. I know the rules, and it's good to know that when there is an issue I don't have to start by trying to figure out what "is" is.

It's nice to have CPs who don't have you on the speaker phone in front of all their friends when they talk to you about something.

 

[Speedtape]

Relax! I've been here a long time and know we have better advocates now than at any time since I've been here.
Advocates? Seriously, are you saying the CP's are an advocate for pilots? Sorry, but they are not your advocate. A better analogy would be that they are, maybe, Referee's, but that really is not a fit definition, either. They are really Company representatives, and their job is to administer policy and supervise, but more importantly to protect the Company first. And, for me, that's OK, but, I know they are not my advocate. From time to time, they can be your facilitator. But, they are given the company and legal authority, they can be your Disciplinarian/Terminator or an agent therof. Someone who can discipline or terminate you or be ordered to discipline or terminate, is not your advocate--herein lies the conflict of interest.
When I said rules, I meant the contract, and in my case they've interpretted it without an agenda for either side. I know the rules, and it's good to know that when there is an issue I don't have to start by trying to figure out what "is" is.
The CP's are not contract experts. If you need an interpretation on something you are unsure of, contact the pilots or lawyer who negotiated it, or the ACC. Reading the contract and having general knowledge is a good thing, but many times it means nothing until there is an actual situation that it may apply. Unfortunately, as pilots or CP's, we can read the language, but may not know or understand the intent. That "is" the fact.

It's nice to have CPs who don't have you on the speaker phone in front of all their friends when they talk to you about something.

I would agree. I do not like that tactic, either. I always ask, is this a speaker phone and/or is this phone recorded. Some of the former ones did put you on speaker phone. However, it seems to be easy to determine most of the time and, personally, I would not participate in that unprofessional and unethical trick.

Please do not take my opinion as an attack on the CPO. That is not the case, at all. It is always good to have people in those positions that are approachable, likeable, and have integrity. However, their role is not advocacy for pilots. Cheers!

 

[the palm]

I will not pull that b.s.

It would go against my fbi training.

 

[wms]

I've been in a grievance hearing before, and after that experience I'll take a CP that I have a relationship with and I trust before a rep that's just in it for the typical "association vs company" ego conflict. I'm glad we have ALPA and I support them, we need them at ASA, but in my opinion our reps don't have the pilots' best interest in mind.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I will not pull that b.s.

It would go against my fbi training.

That, friends, is one of the funniest things written on FlightInfo. Ever.

 

[JumpersAway]

I've been in a grievance hearing before, and after that experience I'll take a CP that I have a relationship with and I trust before a rep that's just in it for the typical "association vs company" ego conflict. I'm glad we have ALPA and I support them, we need them at ASA, but in my opinion our reps don't have the pilots' best interest in mind.

Agreed........

Frankly, I'm impressed with the cadre of guys we have in the CPOs. I'm not looking for someone to snow me over and dazzle me with sunshine when I'm trying to weasle my way out of something- but I AM looking for a group of guys that will tell me like it is, and will back me 100% when I'm in the right. I feel we've got a pilot friendly group of guys that actually listen.

 

[crj567]

I will not pull that b.s.

It would go against my fbi training.

You mess with the palm..... You get the whole hand!

 

[Speedtape]

I've been in a grievance hearing before, and after that experience I'll take a CP that I have a relationship with and I trust before a rep that's just in it for the typical "association vs company" ego conflict. I'm glad we have ALPA and I support them, we need them at ASA, but in my opinion our reps don't have the pilots' best interest in mind.

Good Luck!

 

[Speedtape]

Agreed........

Frankly, I'm impressed with the cadre of guys we have in the CPOs. I'm not looking for someone to snow me over and dazzle me with sunshine when I'm trying to weasle my way out of something- but I AM looking for a group of guys that will tell me like it is, and will back me 100% when I'm in the right. I feel we've got a pilot friendly group of guys that actually listen.

When you are in the right, you don't need anyone to back you! When you are in the wrong, by intent or accident, is when you need help. Let us know how that turns out for you!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You mess with the palm..... You get the whole hand!

And everyone knows how good you are with that hand!:blush: You treat your body like it was an amusement ride!:blush::laugh:
You go fryboy!

 

[ohplease!]

And everyone knows how good you are with that hand!:blush: You treat your body like it was an amusement ride!:blush::laugh:
You go fryboy!

pretty creepy how you stalk this character....dude, just ask him out and get it over with already.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

pretty creepy how you stalk this character....dude, just ask him out and get it over with already.

Actually, rumor has it that he's perfected his "handy work" on you!:laugh:
You guys still "sharing hotel rooms" on layovers?:blush:

 

[LazyLightnin']

And everyone knows how good you are with that hand!:blush: You treat your body like it was an amusement ride!:blush::laugh:
You go fryboy!

Nice one, Estelle Costanza.

 

[pipi]

Classy

Actually, rumor has it that he's perfected his "handy work" on you!:laugh:
You guys still "sharing hotel rooms" on layovers?:blush:

Man, do you know what class is? Grow up.

 

[Speedtape]

Actually, rumor has it that he's perfected his "handy work" on you!:laugh:
You guys still "sharing hotel rooms" on layovers?:blush:

Are your ears on backwards?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Nice one, Estelle Costanza.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Classic line, wasn't it?

 

[JumpersAway]

When you are in the right, you don't need anyone to back you! When you are in the wrong, by intent or accident, is when you need help. Let us know how that turns out for you!

Well, as for myself, I've been lucky enough to avoid a carpet dance. However, the "kinder, gentler" CPO seems to have worked alright for a senior captain that self parked with no marshallers the other day. Apparently he got pissed about the rampers so he just pulled into the gate. He's not terminated, just got a talking to and 3 days off. I think this backs my point that it's not as adversarial as it used to be, even just two years ago. It also appears that the group of our CP's are good friends, and likely to stick togeather if one of them feels they need to make a call and stand up against management. I stick to my original argument- we've got a good cadre of guys in the CPO...............

 

[Speedtape]

Well, as for myself, I've been lucky enough to avoid a carpet dance. However, the "kinder, gentler" CPO seems to have worked alright for a senior captain that self parked with no marshallers the other day. Apparently he got pissed about the rampers so he just pulled into the gate. He's not terminated, just got a talking to and 3 days off. I think this backs my point that it's not as adversarial as it used to be, even just two years ago. It also appears that the group of our CP's are good friends, and likely to stick togeather if one of them feels they need to make a call and stand up against management. I stick to my original argument- we've got a good cadre of guys in the CPO...............

Having a good cadre of guys in the CPO is a good thing--no argument there. From what has been floating around, the CPO's can make no decisions without going one step up. That has been the frustration of those who were in there before. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts with these guys. None of them have enough line experience to really have walked in the average pilot's shoes.

On any serious matter, their responsibilities are to the company and protecting the company. In a discipline process, they represent the company's interest and will follow the direction given them by their boss and in some cases by the legal side of the house. That's where the quick sand exists for those who think that they are a pilot's advocate. Sorry, you may have a great relationship with them, but at some point, that will not protect your best interests--in fact, it could cause you or another pilot harm by your own naieve trust. Some may have to learn the hard way of how to draw the line. Just remember, in a serious matter, anything you say or write, can and will be used against you--not necessarily by your buddies in the CPO, but by their boss. Your CP's have a duty to protect the company and unfortunately sometimes that can be at the pilot's expense. However, that does not mean that they are not the great guys that you claim. Be careful and good tailwinds!