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New ATA DC-10

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Anybody know how many will be on the property and flying through the end of the year? Are furloughees being brought back into the DC10 or going to the 737/757 first? Are many current 737/757 or L-1011 pilots upgrading to the 10 now?
 
I think it looks way too plain. Need to add some color to the fuse!
Agreed. It would look amazing in the full 737/757 colors. Still hoping against hope to see at least 1 1011 in those colors as well. Last I heard, there's a -500 tooling around but without the large fuselage titles or tail logo.
 
Looks like 3 or 4 of ATA's DC-10's are going to World instead of ATA.

Let the whipsawing begin.
 
Hal,

I have said all along that I would like to see ATA operate those 10's that were bought by the holding company. I am sure they made promises or implications that this would bring all of the furloughs back and more. But I wonder how you and the ATA pilot group might feel if they decided to absorb North American's 757 and 767 fleet into ATA and do away with that duplicate certificate. that would serve to bring back all those pilots and more for sure and I have the impression that NAA crews are worried about this very happening.

I agree with the whipsawing concerns but in the end GAL bought those 10's and they will stick them where they can make money ASAP with them. We as a pilot group must resist the us and them as this will play into GAL's plans in the end. Good luck to us all and this sale is not approved just yet. Maybe WOA holdings will dump NAA and WOA can get back to making money again.
 
Hal,

I have said all along that I would like to see ATA operate those 10's that were bought by the holding company. I am sure they made promises or implications that this would bring all of the furloughs back and more. But I wonder how you and the ATA pilot group might feel if they decided to absorb North American's 757 and 767 fleet into ATA and do away with that duplicate certificate. that would serve to bring back all those pilots and more for sure and I have the impression that NAA crews are worried about this very happening.

I agree with the whipsawing concerns but in the end GAL bought those 10's and they will stick them where they can make money ASAP with them. We as a pilot group must resist the us and them as this will play into GAL's plans in the end. Good luck to us all and this sale is not approved just yet. Maybe WOA holdings will dump NAA and WOA can get back to making money again.

Everything that you've mentioned is already being discussed by ATA pilots. NA could be the first "whipsaw" casualty. Unfortunately, ATA/ALPA seems to be sitting on their hands, and the IBT's at NA and WOA are telling their membership that a merger is bad for them. This couldn't be further from the truth.

The "10's" were bought by ATA Holdings for ATA Airlines. GAL came later, and the "deal" hasn't been inked yet. Wait until July 18th. Now WOA is hiring into DC10's that were meant for ATA. ATA still has over 200 on furlough. The 10's are not ready yet, they have to be refitted and crews trained no matter who gets them. I doubt they'll be online any faster.

The three labor groups are chosing to be blind.
 
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Hal,

I have said all along that I would like to see ATA operate those 10's that were bought by the holding company. I am sure they made promises or implications that this would bring all of the furloughs back and more. But I wonder how you and the ATA pilot group might feel if they decided to absorb North American's 757 and 767 fleet into ATA and do away with that duplicate certificate. that would serve to bring back all those pilots and more for sure and I have the impression that NAA crews are worried about this very happening.

I agree with the whipsawing concerns but in the end GAL bought those 10's and they will stick them where they can make money ASAP with them. We as a pilot group must resist the us and them as this will play into GAL's plans in the end. Good luck to us all and this sale is not approved just yet. Maybe WOA holdings will dump NAA and WOA can get back to making money again.

Not sure why everyone jumps to the conclusion of folding in NA to some other company. We never were bankrupt, and continue to make money.
 
The lastest plan direct from the crew van driver. Oh wait, there is no crew van anymore.

ATA (GAL) acquired 9 DC-10-30's from NWA. 7 were intended to be flyers with 2 part outs.

ATA will operate 6 DC-10-30 aircraft. 3 will go on line in 2007 and 3 in 2008. The delivery schedule has been slowed due to the decision to keep L1011's flying longer.

ATA will operate 3 L1011-500s through the end of 2008.

WOA will get 3 DC-10-30 aircraft from GAL. Again, two of these were intended for part out by ATA.

Net loss of aircraft for ATA = 1

Alpine
 
Anyone who believed they'd park recently D-checked L10's by the end of this year were smoking crack. ATA is notoriously incompetent in adding fleet types to the airline. It always takes longer to get them on line the should be necessary.

Subod Karnak "the magnificent" told us that the 9 DC 10's were a packaged deal or "no deal." That was the only way we would get them. We figured that we just keep two for parts as the are all older than our oldest L10.

Business plans change, but then again, they're now telling us that ATA never intended to operate more than 6 widebodies. Is that a change or an admission of a lie?

As far as NA is concerned, I've heard from various places that GAL is not interested in getting a contract with NA pilots. That's where the rumor of it's demise comes from. I don't know what the pilot group is seeking in a contract, so I wonder what would be best for them? Would ATA's contract be better than what NA could negotiate? I don't know.
 
From reading the aquisition proposal I would say that NA has to have some sort of contract. Since the news of the posible acquisition the company has been more willing to negotiate. Im sure ATA's contract would be better than what we get, but we dont have any guys on the street like ATA does. That is the bad part about it.
 
I would seriously doubt that GAL will fold NA into any of the other 2, why would they return a certificate for nothing when it could be sold for money later on down the road. MP buysout poorly run companies and then dresses them up for a sale. Based on their history alone, they wouldn't return a certificate for nothing. Also don't forget that NA is the lowest cost operator of the 3, and has been making money from day one. It makes no sense to return the certificate of their lowest cost operator that also happens to be quiet profitable.

xtwapilot
 
There's profitable, then there's $profitable$

Asset allocation for better yield management. MP will do what they have to do to make even more money. That includes closing down a carrier if need be to use those assets somewhere else.

My point? No job under GAL is safe. We all are expendable.
 
I guess you overlooked the final numbers released for 2006, where the loss for the year is attributed to World due primarily to higher maintenance costs, and secondary a drop off of military revenue in Dec 2006 for World. Also look at the release today which shows, numbers for NAA up and numbers for World down.
 
i encourage you to read the 10 k filings.you will notice that north american lost 144 dollars for every hour they flew.world made 46 dollars per hour flown.the reason world did not make 50 million dollars again this year is because of the aforementioned items.i agree the numbers are up for north american,i suppose that means the more they fly the more they lose.
 
to be exact ,straight from the 2006 10 k filings.

WORLD PER BLOCK HOUR
REVENUE=9978
EXPENSE=9932

NORTH AMERICAN PER BLOCK HOUR
REVENUE=9725
EXPENSE=9869
 
I'll look into that, but can you explain the 2006 loss management attributed to unexpected maintenance cost and the drop in Dec 2006 military revenue being the major contributors to the overall loss for FY2006
? All the above were on the World side.
 
Below is a portion of the 10k you were referring to, please note that listing block hours expense without clarifying how it was calculated and what was left out does not paint the true picture. Note below that the operating expense listed does not include, maintenance, aircraft rent, insurance, and fuel. These are biggies, especially given the fact that World side of the house had an increase of 19.9 million in maintenance alone. Fuel, insurance, and rent is much higher on widebodies such as the md11 vs. 767 or 757. The picture becomes clearer when you take the above into account, clearly World's side didn't have the operating black that was alluded to. You are correct that block hrs shows in the red, but on the NA side it's mostly attributed to scheduled service, which was run very poorly by management. I can tell you this, prior to World's buyout of NA, NA had only 1 quarter in it's entire history where they lost money.
One of the reasons that GAL is now buying us out is because they are a vulture firm that looks for strong fundementals in a business that is poorly run due to weak management, and they hit the jackpot in World airways holdings, this is by far a very weak management team.
I firmly believe they will run each company seperately because should they need to part out the operations, it better to sell them as going concerns than to surrender a certificate without getting anything in return for it. I think ultimately it's going to take a lot of cooperation between the 3 pilot groups to ensure we don't get whipsawed in the process.




Year Ended December 31,
2006 2005* 2004
Block Hours
World Airways 56,102 58,515 47,759
North American Airlines 27,475 17,175 -

Total 83,577 75,690 47,759

Revenue per Block Hour
World Airways $ 9,978 $ 10,659 $ 10,551
North American Airlines $ 9,725 $ 9,510 $ -
Total $ 9,879 $ 10,400 $ 10,551

Operating Expense per Block Hour
World Airways $ 9,932 $ 9,742 $ 9,707
North American Airlines $ 9,869 $ 9,444 $ -
Total $ 9,888 $ 9,652 $ 9,707

Operating aircraft at year end
World Airways 17 17 16
North American Airlines 9 8 -

Average available aircraft per day
World Airways 16.6 16.6 16.0
North American Airlines 8.8 8.0 -

Average daily utilization (block hours flown per day
per aircraft)
World Airways 9.3 9.7 8.1
North American Airlines 8.6 8.7 -




* Financial and statistical data include the results of North American from April 28, 2005 to December 31, 2005.

Year Ended December 31, 2006 Compared to Year Ended December 31, 2005
Operating revenues increased $38.6 million, or 4.9%, to $825.7 million in 2006 from $787.1 million in 2005. The increase was primarily driven by the full year impact of North American offset by a decline in revenues at World Airways. The decline at World Airways was driven by lower flying under the World Airways contract with the USAF of $78.9 million partially offset by an increase of $16.4 million in full service and ACMI cargo and passenger flying. The majority of the decrease in USAF flying at World Airways was due to being placed on penalty status by the AMC during the second quarter. This occurred due to World Airways failing to maintain minimum performance standards in the prior quarter. AMC capacity was further reduced by the conversion of an aircraft from passenger to freighter service and the curtailment of troop movement during the fourth quarter of 2006.
Operating expenses increased $96.0 million or 13.1% to $826.5 million in 2006 from $730.5 million in 2005.
Flight operation expenses include all costs related directly to the operation of the aircraft other than maintenance, aircraft rent, insurance and fuel. Flight operations expense increased $15.5 million, or 7.1%, in 2006 to $234.0 million from $218.5 million in 2005. The full year impact of North American operations was partially offset by a cost decrease at World Airways of $16.5 million primarily due to an overall decrease in total block hours. The decrease in expense at World Airways was partially offset by a $2.6 million signing bonus paid to the cockpit crewmembers under the terms of the amended collective bargaining agreement. Maintenance expenses increased $33.4 million in 2006, or 29.3% to $147.2 million compared to $113.8 million in 2005. Maintenance cost at World Airways increased $19.9 million mainly driven by incremental vendor-based maintenance events and related parts and material costs which included airworthiness directive compliance costs primarily related to MD-11 engines and significant maintenance required on the airframe of a purchased DC-10 aircraft.
 
i agree with the weak management.sometimes i wonder how this company spiraled out of control.it seems to be all about short term gains for a group of about ten people who really have no clue.what has transpired with labor,financials,military probation,scheduled service,lawsuits,underhanded deals,executive pay,etc is simply mind boggling.you should read the filing where the new cfo was given 200,000 dollars relocation expense.there were things such as pool maintenance and gardening expenses listed.i just hate to see something that could work out good for a lot ruined by a few incompetent people covering their own asses.
 

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