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New ALPA President

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Definitely a time for a change.

It seems to me that most of ALPA decisions tend to favor a few at the top at the expense of the majority of pilots that will never reach the top stage—heavy wide body Captain. To me ALPA membership is like some kind of pyramid scam. The seniority system is what it is, but when the decision makers are all the senior folks too I think that you tend to get short sighted deals that favor the most senior pilots at the expense of the group as a whole. Most of ALPA negotiating strategies pre and post Sep 2001 ensured that only a small percentage pilots benefit while the vast majority of pilots will never reach that level. Pre 911 deals were excessive to the point that the company could not be profitable under any load factor, regardless of world events. Post 911 the union leadership tended to drag their feet in contract renegotiations in total denial of world and economic changes. Senior pilots benefited by having three years of high salaries prior to retirement and walked away with a lump sum while the junior pilots had their pensions terminated. The only real winners I have seen are the national executives with very large salaries. It seem to me that the individual airline union members are thrown under the bus one at a time when it comes to contract negotiations in the name of not setting a precedent for ALPA as a whole. Sorry for ranting. Pinto
 
jetflier said:
Hey, don't we all agree that its time for a change of ALPA leadership?

I came across Dan Brannan's website. It's worth a look.

It may be time for a change, and Brannan may be a fine fellow, but, it will take more than a miracle to get ALPA to elect as President a pilot from a small airline.

If you don't come from DAL, UAL, USA, NWA, or CAL, your chances of being elected to the presidency of ALPA are virtually zero.
 
ALPA is a democratic organization. The President is elected by all the different LEC reps. Each Rep has as many roll call votes as he has constituents. My advice, take it up with your LEC reps. If most ALPA pilots want a rigime change and their reps vote accordingly, then there will be a new President.
 
Pinto said:
It seems to me that most of ALPA decisions tend to favor a few at the top at the expense of the majority of pilots that will never reach the top stage—heavy wide body Captain. To me ALPA membership is like some kind of pyramid scam. The seniority system is what it is, but when the decision makers are all the senior folks too I think that you tend to get short sighted deals that favor the most senior pilots at the expense of the group as a whole. Most of ALPA negotiating strategies pre and post Sep 2001 ensured that only a small percentage pilots benefit while the vast majority of pilots will never reach that level. Pre 911 deals were excessive to the point that the company could not be profitable under any load factor, regardless of world events. Post 911 the union leadership tended to drag their feet in contract renegotiations in total denial of world and economic changes. Senior pilots benefited by having three years of high salaries prior to retirement and walked away with a lump sum while the junior pilots had their pensions terminated. The only real winners I have seen are the national executives with very large salaries. It seem to me that the individual airline union members are thrown under the bus one at a time when it comes to contract negotiations in the name of not setting a precedent for ALPA as a whole. Sorry for ranting. Pinto
This message should be mandatory reading for all ALPA members. You hit a bullseye here sir. Soon we will see the caped defenders of ALPA berating you and blaming the membership for the sickness within this union.
 
ALPA may have a new president sooner than later, when Duane goes to jail for racketeering, collusion, fraud, duty of fair representation etc...

Fu*king Co*ksucker
 
FDJ2 said:
ALPA is a democratic organization. The President is elected by all the different LEC reps. Each Rep has as many roll call votes as he has constituents. My advice, take it up with your LEC reps. If most ALPA pilots want a rigime change and their reps vote accordingly, then there will be a new President.

That is the EXACT issue and attitude that has and IS ruining America, and the Airlines. People like you, keep the blinders on and scream "you can't change it, you can ONLY pick at it", NO we need to fire all of the reps and start over. It's a bad system. FIRE, Not recall, FIRE. (National, not locals who volunteer)
Duane has done more to HURT my career, family, families lifestyle, industry, profession, than any other force. George W. can and should have been shut down years ago trying to get his hands into OUR business. Employees can and will strike/shut down to get a livable wage, OR management might state they can't pay those wages and stay in business. That's what we do.

NOTHING HAS GEORGE W's NAME ON IT.

DUANE SHOULD HAVE SCREAMED THIS YEARS AGO!!! THE PENSION FIASCO CRYSTALIZES THIS

No, it's not a democratic organization. It's a disaster under the guise of an organization.

Not picking on you, just the attitude that's put us in this position now.
 
Jonny Sacko said:
That is the EXACT issue and attitude that has and IS ruining America, and the Airlines. People like you, keep the blinders on and scream "you can't change it, you can ONLY pick at it", NO we need to fire all of the reps and start over. It's a bad system. FIRE, Not recall, FIRE. (National, not locals who volunteer)

I disagree. The facts are the facts, Duane holds office only because he has the majority vote of all the LECs.

As far as your fire them all approach, all I can say is what right do you have to tell me who should or should not represent me? I'll make that choice, not you. I want nothing to do with your mob rule approach.

You want to change things. Fine. Get yourself elected or get some one who you feel better represents you elected and convince the majority of the membership of the righteousness of your positions. Maybe we'll elect you President.
 
Leadership? I see no vision or direction.

I have reviewed Captain Brannan's website and offer the following....

Under the page issues>collective collobration Capt. Brannan writes

When our profession and industry was directly challenged by cabotage, through his leadership [Capt. Duffy]and with the support of the BOD a "Suspension of Service" (SOS.) was publicly announced and efforts and energy were put into making that SOS a reality - IF - it was needed. The strategy worked because when you are truly ready to take drastic action, that fact alone precludes having to take the action.





This is simply not true. The strategy did not work and cannot work.

I am not sure what the last sentence means!

The strategy worked because when you are truly ready to take drastic action, that fact alone precludes having to take the action.



Huh? So you are saying that Eisenhower didn't have to invade Normandy because he was simply ready to do so?


While many pilots in this current environment are ready to be militant, a SOS is not an option despite the above misleading information.


From Flying the Line Vol II. Professor Hopkins on pages 24-33 tells of how even though ALPA approved an SOS it was never implemented and was called an ALPA nuclear weapon. (meaning it would destroy all, including ALPA).

On page 33 Hopkins writes of the anti labor judges placed by Regan and Bush would certianly ential jail time for both members and ALPA leaders. To do a SOS would mean the end of any pilots career.

Most of the SOS planning took place during JJ O'Donnells tenure as the ALPA President. But Brannan talks about ALPA President Duffy using an SOS during the Eastern pilots battle with Lorenzo (not necessarily cabatoge) and Duffy concluded that "that the basic SOS concept is unworkable" (page 33).

Also on page 246 Duffy states that an SOS is really only valid when it effects national issues such as cabatoge or hijacking. But the SOS in this situation was in support of Easterns MEC and thier Lorenzo battle. In fact Hopkins states "Hank Duffy's refusal to endorse an SOS generated enormous anger among them" [the EAL pilots]

Duffy states on page 246 "So nobody who does not bargain nationally so that all of the local units are involved, commits a national action like an SOS"

and on page 37 the 1972 SOS is called "one of the most embarrassing disasters in ALPA history"



when you are truly ready to take drastic action, that fact alone precludes having to take the action.

So as ALPA President is Capt. Brannan willing to shut down the airline industry? If he does, then we are all finished. But the lawyers, policy makers, ALPA members, legislators, Supreme Court and Bush Admin know he can't, so what do we really have here? Is Capt. Brannan saying if he really believes he can conduct an SOS he won't have to? I am not following the logic.

Unfortunatly I only see this section of Brannan's website as emotional rousing of the masses to get votes.


Under issues>leadership...

Captain Brannan discusses leadership. I read it and didn't feel connected. there is no substance. What I look for in a leader is someone who empowers his troops or staff. In fact if we are to "think out side the box" then we need a new leadership style..... servant leadership.....

Under Dan's Plan link on right hand margin of home page.

Capt. Brannan has a lengthly outline that means nothing. I've read the entire outline and it reads like a Corporate Business thesaurus of quick-fix feel good jargon.

For example:

Communicate a clear message:
  • State of the union:
    • Financially
    • Internally
      • Staff
      • Infrastructure
      • Resources
      • Other?
      • Special focus on ALPA strengths.
What does this mean to me the ALPA member? If this is your internal organzational methodology, then keep it internally.

This website, as another poster stated on another thread, is hollow.

What I want to know from any ALPA President Candidates is...


What is you opinion on Brand Scope?
What is your opinion on the current status of ALPA-PAC effectiveness?
What is your opinion of the Unit II negotiations.
What is your opinion of general membership participation rates in LEC meetings and elections?
What is your concern on cabatoge?
What are your concerns on foreign ownership?
Should the APA rejoin ALPA? or should ALPA join the APA?
What are your concerns on FPL abuse?
How do you plan to better unify the general membership?











Finally, if you want to question the validiaty of Flying the Line consider this...
on page XII of the Preface [Vol. II].

Hopkins, the books' author writes




JJ O'Donnell [then ALPA's president] asked me to write another history commemorating the unions 50th anniversary. With the understanding that I would give ALPA its history "warts and all," I agreed.

The result was Flying the Line; the First Half Century of the Airline Pilots Association, published in 1982. My interpretation of ALPA's history was not censored. I work for
WesternIllionisUniversity specifically and for an abstraction called history" generally. Although frankly nervous about the book, O'Donnell understood that prettified "court history" praising the King (so to speak) would be worthless. If pilots were to derive insight from my book, it had to be free to go wherever truth took it.


 
Perhaps someone can clear this up but... well, let me put it this way.... what is Dan Brannen's current employment situation? I don't mean what he is saying on his web site. I mean today.
 
FDJ2 said:
ALPA is a democratic organization. The President is elected by all the different LEC reps. Each Rep has as many roll call votes as he has constituents. My advice, take it up with your LEC reps. If most ALPA pilots want a rigime change and their reps vote accordingly, then there will be a new President.

Apart from the fact that ALPA is an oligarchy and not a democracy, what does your statement have to do with what I said?

We know the mechanics of the election process. We also know that the current administration of the ALPA was "elected" (more than once) with no opposition. Did that result from "membership satisfaction" or was it the equivalent of an "arranged marriage"?

Is it just a coincidence that 4 of the airlines I mentioned each has one (1) of the 4 top positions in ALPA? Did that just happen to happen, or was it "arranged" before the fact?

I contend that one can't become president of ALPA unless one is employed by one of the 5 airlines I mentioned. Do you believe otherwise? If so, why? Who is the exception -- FDX?

ALPA is similar to Texas where clever gerrymandering ensures that only Republicans will be elected to national office. It's legal but there is little about it that's "democratic".
 
surplus1 said:
Apart from the fact that ALPA is an oligarchy and not a democracy, what does your statement have to do with what I said?

I wasn't responding to your post specifically, but rather the general mis conception of ALPA's structure and election process.

An "oligarchy" is a government/organization governed by a small group of people. Given ALPA's organizational structure, where all officers are either elected by the membership or the memberships elected representatives, and can be recalled by the membership or their elected representatives, I hardly see how elected officials fall into that definition, particularly when all the Different MECs essentially govern themselves.

We know the mechanics of the election process.

I believe that many don't. Partly fueled by the misinformation put out by those with their own personal anti-ALPA agenda.

We also know that the current administration of the ALPA was "elected" (more than once) with no opposition. Did that result from "membership satisfaction" or was it the equivalent of an "arranged marriage"?

Sounds like the majority of the membership elected Duane through their representatives. In a democratic system like ALPA's that generally means that the majority approve of his leadership. However, democratic systems like ALPAs often have a vocal minority that feel their narrow interests aren't satisfied. Perhaps if their arguments were persuasive to the majority of the membership their agenda would be adopted.

Is it just a coincidence that 4 of the airlines I mentioned each has one (1) of the 4 top positions in ALPA? Did that just happen to happen, or was it "arranged" before the fact?

No, they were elected.

I contend that one can't become president of ALPA unless one is employed by one of the 5 airlines I mentioned. Do you believe otherwise? If so, why? Who is the exception -- FDX?

I contend that if you can muster the votes you'll get elected. If the majority of ALPA members wanted JC Lawson, as an example, as ALPA President and those members elected LEC representatives followed the direction of their constituents, JC would be President.

ALPA is similar to Texas where clever gerrymandering ensures that only Republicans will be elected to national office. It's legal but there is little about it that's "democratic".

Gerrymandering is the manipulation of political boundries for political advantage. In a system like ALPA's where each LEC member carries one roll call vote for each member he represents, regardless of which airline he comes from, when voting for the President political boundries mean nothing. You'll have to come up with a better analogy.
 
Sounds to me this guy actually has a set...he doesn't stand a chance. I'll vote for him though.
 
JP4user said:
This is different from the current leadership and direction from ALPA in what way?

Anybody but Woerth? Is that your mantra?

What is your point? Replace no leadership with no leadership?
 
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FedEx1 said:
Perhaps someone can clear this up but... well, let me put it this way.... what is Dan Brannen's current employment situation? I don't mean what he is saying on his web site. I mean today.

Exactly..... What is his current employment status?
 
surplus1 said:
It may be time for a change, and Brannan may be a fine fellow, but, it will take more than a miracle to get ALPA to elect as President a pilot from a small airline.

If you don't come from DAL, UAL, USA, NWA, or CAL, your chances of being elected to the presidency of ALPA are virtually zero.

Surplus1-

Throw FedEx in there.... they have the potential to become a real player at ALPA. Votes and Dues money... Thier pilot will contribute the most dues per pilot group...
 
ferlo said:
Sounds to me this guy actually has a set...he doesn't stand a chance. I'll vote for him though.

Are you using emotion or logic to come to this conclusion.

The website is designed to influence your emotions.

But the point is moot. One must be employed by an ALPA carrier to be elected.
 
dan branan works for astar, he is the person responsible for the contract they got using interest based bargaining . it was an example for all other pilot grouos that sadly has never been duplicated in alpa.

duane worthless makes $500k a year. that is the only reson he runs for office. he does not want to go back to northwest to make $160k as a 75 driver.

if duane is reelected expect alpa to continue being the joke of a union it is today. the weakest pillot union in hte world.

will and sos mean jail time? ok, so what.union leaders must have the balls to confront anti labor laws. even if it means jail time. besides , the sos would not be called off until inmunity for the leaders was granted.
 
What basis do I use to come up with my statement?

Well, any ALPA pilot with a rectal tempurature above 62 degrees may have noticed in the last 5 years that our careers have been desimated. What has ALPA done about it, NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOTHING. So I guess I base my reasoning on fact, not emotion or anything else.

I guess they've done one thing, they basically reversed 50 years of policy and are now begrudgingly, luke warmly against raising the retirement age to 65. Thanks Duane. Who, by the way, still hasn't offered to take any kind of pay cut. At least a symbolic one would be nice. Something tells me he's going into business with Babbit when he's done with us.
 
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ferlo said:
What basis do I use to come up with my statement?

Well, any ALPA pilot with a rectal tempurature above 62 degrees may have noticed in the last 5 years that our careers have been desimated. What has ALPA done about it, NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH, NOTHING.

What caused our careers to suffer such a set back? What would you have done differently?
 
"Interest Based Bargaining", Who's Interest?

SNOWBUM said:
dan branan works for astar, he is the person responsible for the contract they got using interest based bargaining . it was an example for all other pilot grouos that sadly has never been duplicated in alpa.

Any ALPA unit is free to try "interest based bargaining". We tried it when we were FPA. Unfortunately, all bargaining was done in the Company's interest, not ours. I believe that UPS tried it. Four years later they are still negotiating.
 
SNOWBUM said:
will and sos mean jail time? ok, so what.union leaders must have the balls to confront anti labor laws. even if it means jail time. besides , the sos would not be called off until inmunity for the leaders was granted.

ALPA could learn from the transit workers in NYC.

Duane I am still waiting for your answer as to the differences I asked.
 
JP4user said:
ALPA could learn from the transit workers in NYC.

Duane I am still waiting for your answer as to the differences I asked.

Can you see a difference between the market forces in Aviation and those of a monopoly like the NYC transit system?

Are you proposing that ALPA operate outside of the restrictions of the RLA and conduct illegal work actions?

What specifically could ALPA learn from the transit workers in NYC?
 
one of the main problems is that the rla is an outdated anti labor antoconstitutional law. alpa , and specialy worthless, should have fought as hard as possible with the other transit unions to get rid of that law. it was maybe needed when the goverment used the railroads to deliver mail and then the regulated airlines. now the industry is deregulated, making the origin and basis of thet law outdated and worthless should have worked on htat issue from day one.

but he stil lives in 1983. that is why he needs to go .
 
FDJ2 said:
Can you see a difference between the market forces in Aviation and those of a monopoly like the NYC transit system?

Are you proposing that ALPA operate outside of the restrictions of the RLA and conduct illegal work actions?

What specifically could ALPA learn from the transit workers in NYC?
You don't think the power of the nations pilots walking off the job isn't a monopoly or a force to be reckoned with? I know all about the APA fine so don't bother going there. If ALPA had any true bortherhood not a wheel should of turned until that fine was rescinded in support of our brothers at APA. What are they going to do fire 30,000 - 40,000 pilots or put us all in jail?

The RLA is sorely outdated and totally biased against labor. What has ALPA been doing to change this antiquated law? How much lobbying have they been doing about this issue? Other than lip service what actions has ALPA done to stem the abuse from the bankruptcy courts?

The transit leaders showed guts and thumbed their noses at the courts to get a contract settled that was equitable. What did they end up with? A reasonable settlement for their members and a few days in jail. I know the country club ALPA elitists in Washington certainly don't have the spine for anything like that.
 
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Rez O. Lewshun said:
Surplus1-

Throw FedEx in there.... they have the potential to become a real player at ALPA. Votes and Dues money... Thier pilot will contribute the most dues per pilot group...

You're correct; a real financial power and money talks. Enough to overcome the "freighter" status you think?

One must be employed by an ALPA carrier to be elected.

If I'm not mistaken, the office of president is the one national position (elective) that does NOT require active employment by an ALPA carrier. If I remember correctly it's happened once.

Isn't Brannan employed by Astar (DHL)? (He used to be. Was the MEC Chair and also an EVP).

You seem to disapprove of him. Any particular reason? Do you know him personally?
 

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