New AAI ALPA Strategy: Fire SWA Haters!

[Ty Webb]

What if you (and your group) are given a choice between temporary pay gains for seniority or whatever the nuclear option is? What if pay protection and some fences are allowed? What if there's a temporary "no bump/no flush"? What if SWAPA pilots are given an equity stake? SWA has many other choices to affect the outcome of votes on both sides. I doubt they'll let it get to arbitration because it's too high of a risk to the culture of the company. JMHO, though...

shootr

Hell, man, it isn't up to me, period. I am one vote, if it even comes down to a vote. I don't know what I am personally willing to accept, I'll withold judgement until I see it.

I think whatever they come up with, the more likely scenario is that it gets voted down by the SWA pilots, who are unlikely to be happy with any integration . . . . Then it goes to Arbitration, and they get handed something they like even less. . . . . And, of course, somehow, it'll be Ty's fault. :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

the more likely scenario is that it gets voted down by the SWA pilots

Yeah, it will. (you have no idea Ty Webb)

 

[redflyer65]

something for what we are getting from SW (not SWAPA.

Really? Then why don't you apply for a job with Southwest as a non-union pilot since you will get your pay from them. Not sure that would work out so well.

The pay and QOL are a direct affect of the SWAPA contract, you can't have one without the other.

 

[Dan Roman]

Am I missing something here? It sounds like the SWA folks on here seem to think the AirTran folks don't deserve a fair and equitable merger of their two companies (still talking partial staples, etc.). SWA cannot legally use the AirTran assets without employing the AirTran employees that come with it. Period. They have to, by law be merged in unless they operate it as a separate entity. I.E a lower cost unit that could be used for future expansion which I doubt they would want. There is simply no way SWA can have a ATL hub and not take the AirTran employees. They will be merged in and the junior SWA pilots will be junior to all but the junior AirTran pilots. There really is no way around it unless the AirTran folks agree to it, which would be foolish.

 

[Dan Roman]

SW management can do whatever they want with this deal,

No they can't. There are laws that they are not above.

 

[Lear70]

SW management can do whatever they want with this deal, if it gets ugly I could definitely see them stepping in to sweeten the pot to make things go more smoothly.

That thought has occurred to me... I don't see a legal barrier towards GK offering something towards the end of mediation to keep it from going to arbitration if it's looking like a deal can't be reached. Also, after an arbitrated award is handed down, if he wanted to help mollify one side or another from any perceived shortcoming, he could legally do something then as well.

The only problem is, how do you ascertain who gets anything and how much? You can't just buy off SOME of your pilots, and if it's ALL your pilots, what do you use to buy them off?

Let's say just for argument's sake that it's something as measly as 1,000 shares of common stock (it spiked to $14 after the deal was announced but has been burbling around $12 a share for the better part of a year or more). That's $12,000 per pilot. Times 6,000 pilots is $72,000,000.

I don't think GK is going to authorize a $72M lump-sum buy-off and I don't think your pilots would bite off on something that equates to less than one year's yearly bonus payment for F/O's, half or 1/3 of that for CA's. I'm not seeing a way to "sweeten the deal" by "buying" the cooperation of SWA pilots.

As for using a Scope release for code-share, I'm not sure how that can be construed as "sweetening the deal" for SWA pilots, can you explain that?

As far as the "pulling a Muse" idea, we've been over that, and it's just not worth the angst responding to something that I'm not worried about and that will only cause more arguments... it's not getting solved here.

I understand the worries and fears of the SWA pilots; you just have to have a little faith that it will all work out.

 

[redflyer65]

The number that has been thrown around is north of 30k. And I think you would hard pressed to find too many SW pilots that would touch stock or stock options. Would Gary want to write a check that big? Probably not, he has the resources to do it though.

I'm interested to see what he does with this SLI, he holds all the cards. Interesting times ahead. There is no doubt in my mind that he structured this deal with a nuclear ripcord. Two sub LCC's? You think he's paying that many legal fees just for fun?

I'm hoping for a great outcome as well. Then we can all wear the big bling.

 

[400ADude]

Maybe if you knew the origins of the phrase "A Hostage to Fortune" . . .

. . . ah, never mind.



Maybe yours should read, "Has trouble sharing toys". :crying::crying::crying:

The only problem with sharing toys is that you guys having nothing to share and what you do have to share is lousy pay, one big nasty crew base in ATL, massive amounts of debt, a sh!tty management team and did I leave anything out???

So what toys are guys bringing???

 

[SWA/FO]

SWA cannot legally use the AirTran assets without employing the AirTran employees that come with it

Don't make me laugh. You think any good CEO would paint himself into a corner? Do you?

 

[Ty Webb]

The only problem with sharing toys is that you guys having nothing to share and what you do have to share is lousy pay, one big nasty crew base in ATL, massive amounts of debt, a sh!tty management team and did I leave anything out???

So what toys are guys bringing???

Yeah, 135 airframes, 50 737NG orders, 700 daily departures, and 10+ years of profits.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah, 135 airframes, 50 737NG orders, 700 daily departures, and 10+ years of profits.

& 1.5 BILLION in debt. An airplane (717) that would have bankrupt the airline if they didn't purchase engine insurance, cus they sux and break all the time.

 

[400ADude]

Yeah, 135 airframes, 50 737NG orders, 700 daily departures, and 10+ years of profits.

You couldn't afford your orders with the debt, economy and competition. Southwest doesn't want all those airframes (717) long term and maybe even short term.

Sorry but you don't bring any improvements over to the pilots of SWA. Pay. Nope. Multiple crew bases. Nope. Great benefits. Nope. Culture. Nope. Bitter pilot group willing to strike last year. YES!!!

As far as what you might do for SWA the company, the jury is not only out but hasn't been picked yet. They only wanted ATL. Thats it. Unfortunately I believe they paid way way too much and they are not going to like what they are getting.

 

[Ty Webb]

You couldn't afford your orders with the debt, economy and competition. Southwest doesn't want all those airframes (717) long term and maybe even short term.

Sorry but you don't bring any improvements over to the pilots of SWA. Pay. Nope. Multiple crew bases. Nope. Great benefits. Nope. Culture. Nope. Bitter pilot group. YES!!!

Yes, those lousy 717 have done a terrible job of competing against DAL and building a company that SWA chose to buy! :laugh:

As for "bitter" employees, cripes, you're one of the most bitter individuals posting on FI. I have yet to see a single post from you that was anything but bitter. :erm:

 

[Ty Webb]

& 1.5 BILLION in debt. An airplane (717) that would have bankrupt the airline if they didn't purchase engine insurance, cus they sux and break all the time.

Wow, "engine insurance" . . . . you are a highly astute businessman! Why are you hiding your light under a bushel by flying airplanes . . . Warren Buffet needs a second-in-command. Better catch the next flight to Omaha, stat!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Again, it's not personal toward Citrus pilots.

"Hired not acquired" bag stickers are pretty personal. Egotistical too. You guys sound like United pilots in 1992. Look how that turned out.

 

[scoreboardII]

I haven't seen one of those stickers so I doubt they are out there.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, it will. (you have no idea Ty Webb)

Actually, I do . . . .

Expect the SWA pilots to be split. The FO's will want to vote it down and go to arbitration, the SWA CA's will want to vote it in and limit their exposure . . . once it goes to Arbitration, all bets are off.

The AirTran pilots will have four segments:

1) The most junior guys who are "happy just to be here"
2) The senior FO's who were looking at upgrading into those 50 737 deliveries
3) The junior CA's
4) The senior CA's

It will be very interesting, to be sure.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yes, those lousy 717 have done a terrible job of competing against DAL and building a company that SWA chose to buy! :laugh:

I don't know the technial term. But my quote is directly from the dude in charge of MX at Tranny. He also said "those 25 717s in the desert are being robbed of parts to keep the current tranny 717s flying" :laugh:

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

#2 is just asinine. Aai fo to Swa fo is a more substantial upgrade than aai fo to aai capt. If for no other reason than you still have yet another upgrade awaiting you. (Swa capt)

Without the acquisition aai capt would have been the limit.

 

[SWA/FO]

Ty you might be the most disappointed AT Pilot out there and the most vocal. Your own kind (on your forum) are beggin you to stop....

Why don't you just wait and see.

Why don't you try and make a list of what YOU might be getting out of this. We know you don't want anymore money (thats why you have a side business or why you voted to strike at your airline :cartman
....but just sit down and make a list of what Southwest brings to your life.

I bet its a long list. Let me start it for you: 113 Orders for new aircraft, 37 options and 98 Purchase rights.

I'm going to start on my Tranny list and what I get out of this deal.