Never Forget

[dbchandler1]

You assume they were, or were going to remain in Iran and Syria, many of them are there now because we have chased them out of other places due to the war on terror. Saying they werent a threat is a little bit of a stretch, we tried that before with the first world trade center bombing, cole bombing, kobar towers, barracks in beirut, 3-4 embassies, and a few cruise ships and airliners, but then they really werent a threat till they finally suceeded in taking out the WTC. yeah the waiting game works great doesnt it? And who says we arent fighting terrorism is Saudi Arabia just cause were fighting it in a different way with a country whose leaders support our cause, albeit they cannot publically because of political ramifications. I dont think its quite as cut and dry as some people think

 

[Murdoughnut]

You assume they were, or were going to remain in Iran and Syria, many of them are there now because we have chased them out of other places due to the war on terror. Saying they werent a threat is a little bit of a stretch, we tried that before with the first world trade center bombing, cole bombing, kobar towers, barracks in beirut, 3-4 embassies, and a few cruise ships and airliners, but then they really werent a threat till they finally suceeded in taking out the WTC. yeah the waiting game works great doesnt it? And who says we arent fighting terrorism is Saudi Arabia just cause were fighting it in a different way with a country whose leaders support our cause, albeit they cannot publically because of political ramifications. I dont think its quite as cut and dry as some people think

I by no means think it's cut and dry - it's incredibly complicated. I just think many make the mistake of lumping all of these groups together, which is incorrect to do. Of course I recognize that there were threats - most notably the Al Qaeda (obviously). But Iran's moderate majority had largely supressed it's fundamentalist from anything beyond empty rhetoric and marching. Syria was (and is) too strongly attached to European economies to develop notable state sponsored terrorism. Hell, N. Korea is a bigger threat than any of these countries, bigger than Al Qaeda even - but it would be a huge mistake to simply attack.

We could go into each of these "potential" problem areas guns blazing and we'd lose. I love this country as much as anyone here, but the rational side of me says we're losing the war on terror. Some may disagree, and that's cool. I just think those who want to destroy us have us by the balls simply because they're willing to sacrifice far more than we are. And while the rising death toll of American troops has historically always lowered support for armed intervention here in the states, it has the opposite effect with fundamentalists. It only strengthens their radical beliefs, and gives greater perceived rationality to their cause. Matched up against that, I don't think victory without compromise is a possibility - but for our sake, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[dbchandler1]

Apparently Irans moderate majority had not been able to stop the regime from working on nuclear weapons which they have been doing so secretly since before this whole thing started, unfortunately the moderate majority in Iran has never had any power besides organizing college campus protests. As far as Syria goes, forget "developing" state sponsered terrorism, they have been doing it for years, unfortunately the way the world community works you can sponser terrorism without being a fully terrorist lead regime ( See Saudi Arabia), but you should really research Syrias leadership, the links are pretty obvious and the money trail is just as obvious even though they play nice and admit to nothing in the U.N. and yes North Korea is a big deal, China loves the fact that that crazy little dictator can give us so much trouble so they will do nothing, same thing with Russia, tough question on what to do there cause you sure cant negotiate with them, cause they lie, we already found that out.

The problem with going in guns blazing is that, your right, we are too weak a people to fight it out as ruthlessly as they are. but we would also do alot better if people would be united in our support of the war against terrorism, if the free world was actually united against fundamentalist terrorism it would die and that is the way you defeat it. terrorists read the newspapers and they feed off public opinion, more so in our country than in even their own. That is a strategy that the vietnamese taught the world, that if you discourage public opinion against the goverment of the country you are fighting you can eventually wear them out, so you wonder how you win the war , thats it, you promote a solid united front against the other side, that is how we won WWII, but the problem is we have turned into a weak "anti-war" 21st century morality trying to fight a 13th century war morality, not that its bad to have a 21st century morality but if we are destroyed, whats the point anyways.

 

[FN FAL]

That is a strategy that the vietnamese taught the world, that if you discourage public opinion against the goverment of the country you are fighting you can eventually wear them out...

Jeeze, the military-industial complex would have loved that we could have milked that debacle out for 30 or 50 years.

Wasn't a decade in Vietnam enough? Wasn't fighting for a loser government and a people that didn't want democracy a joke? So then, why are we fighting once again for a people that didn't want to be liberated, just so we can hand them the key to democracy like a rich daddy hands the keys to a BMW to his spoiled kids.

The reason democracy works in the US is because we fought for it and killed for it. You have to want it and you have to earn it.

 

[pilotyip]

FN, for the jeeze "Vietnam" crowd. We have no idea what the world would be like without the Vietnam War. For reasons unknown; you and I may be a beneficiary of the Vietnam War, we just don't know how it effected the world. Remember we were in a cold war with the Russia's for world domination, Vietnam, like Korea, was a hot spot in the cold war. Badly fought yes, unfortunate in its outcome probably. Don't join the Vietnam was a complete waste, we just don't know. BTW these terrorists want to die for their cause; it is our duty to kill as many of them as possible to fulfill their desires.

 

[tracearabians]

I am with you crimson!! I would take out anyone even suspected of terroism.
I still say sterilize all those middle eastern bastards. All that has to be done is stop their reproduction. In time they will go away.

I have alot of bad things to say. Many will make me sound like
past leaders from the far left and the far right.

I'm not a leader for a reason. If I was, I would kill everyone
involved, their families, freinds, and societies that supported
them.

I'm not looking for justice, I'm looking for revenge.
But luck would have it, I don't have access to the "easy" button.

CE


(I'm going to calm down for awhile)

 

[PDH]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,206196,00.html

Here's what we're up against. Good peace loving, freedom loving people. And they want Israel to back off .....

 

[pilotyip]

Back off?

Notice that it is hesbola (sp?) that wants the back off, bad guys only do that when the original plan is not working. Fortunately for all of Churchill and FDR understood this, and unconditional surrender was the end product.

 

[dseagrav]

Actually, this recording does serve a purpose!

Listen to the recording very closely toward the end, right when the collapse starts. Do you hear the many sequential explosions that the conspiracy nuts say are supposed to be going off at this point? I sure as hell don't.

Also, below copy-pasted translation from an arabic website where they are discussing this very clip. Someone over there was posting the conspiracy saying that islam had nothing to do with it. They got really mad - because we were stealing credit for their work!

"You can hear plainly on the (recording) the conspiracy is a lie. The brave warriors of Islam said 'Allah is Greatest' and bravely flew into the towers. The Americans were caught completely by surprise. The woman lies to (the american) and says help is coming. They have no hope. They are demoralized, scared, in fear of Allah. The American government did not cause the attack, the brave revolutionary warriors of Allah planned and carried out the attack. You can hear the fear in (the american's) voice, hear them call the false god's name in vain, hear the fear and desperation and knowledge that their false god can not save them. There is no God but Allah. You can hear the realization that Allah has granted us victory and all is lost. This was a total victory for islam. Anything otherwise is lies."

 

[Murdoughnut]

Apparently Irans moderate majority had not been able to stop the regime from working on nuclear weapons which they have been doing so secretly since before this whole thing started, unfortunately the moderate majority in Iran has never had any power besides organizing college campus protests. As far as Syria goes, forget "developing" state sponsered terrorism, they have been doing it for years, unfortunately the way the world community works you can sponser terrorism without being a fully terrorist lead regime ( See Saudi Arabia), but you should really research Syrias leadership, the links are pretty obvious and the money trail is just as obvious even though they play nice and admit to nothing in the U.N. and yes North Korea is a big deal, China loves the fact that that crazy little dictator can give us so much trouble so they will do nothing, same thing with Russia, tough question on what to do there cause you sure cant negotiate with them, cause they lie, we already found that out.

The problem with going in guns blazing is that, your right, we are too weak a people to fight it out as ruthlessly as they are. but we would also do alot better if people would be united in our support of the war against terrorism, if the free world was actually united against fundamentalist terrorism it would die and that is the way you defeat it. terrorists read the newspapers and they feed off public opinion, more so in our country than in even their own. That is a strategy that the vietnamese taught the world, that if you discourage public opinion against the goverment of the country you are fighting you can eventually wear them out, so you wonder how you win the war , thats it, you promote a solid united front against the other side, that is how we won WWII, but the problem is we have turned into a weak "anti-war" 21st century morality trying to fight a 13th century war morality, not that its bad to have a 21st century morality but if we are destroyed, whats the point anyways.

You may be right about the Syrian backdoor terrorism sponsorship, I admit it's a country I have a very limited knowledge about. My perceptions of Iran come from friends of mine who are Persian. The feeling I get from each of them is that Iran is far more moderate than most Americans believe. Actually, outside of Tehran, most of the population has ditched many of the fundamentalist Muslim practices. Tehran seems to be the exception rather than the norm. My friends tell me that the moderate majority wouldn't permit Iran to become a terrorist regime, but maybe they're wrong.

I agree with you on the united front argument, but I would argue that the absurdity of the Iraq/terrorism connection destroyed our credibility in such a manner as to set the process of creating a “united front” back several years. Most countries were on board when we went into Afghanistan – hell, Norway dropped its first bombs in Afghanistan since WWII. But I believe that the president’s drive to go to war in Iraq, and then use the terrorism connection to build support for it, was the turning point. Our leadership thought we could win this war unilaterally, and they were wrong. Without new leadership in the U.S., we will keep getting more of the same.