NetJets Upgrade

[CRJ_Driver]

Spoke to a NetJets pilot recently who told me that upgrades were 6mos after date of hiring nowadays???? Any truth to this?

 

[On Your Six]

Spoke to a NetJets pilot recently who told me that upgrades were 6mos after date of hiring nowadays???? Any truth to this?

I have heard the opposite - it takes a lot longer to get to the LHS. However, with recent departures due to the laughable TA, it might be lower than a few years. Perhaps with more Beechjets arriving, time to the left-hand seat will be reduced...

Question for the NJA people out there - when do the Sovereigns start to arrive on the line and will that have an impact on hiring over the short run? Will newhires get a shot at the Sovereign or will most start on the Beechjet, Ultra, Excel, etc.?

 

[gordon24]

Hawker 400xp PIC was awarded to two July 2004 newhires.

 

[Nightmare67]

Easy does it Gordon! Those two awards were due to a Huge effort that involved almost 1000 of our pilots. The plan was to hold off bidding the 400xp and let the two most junior 400xp FO's get the award thus giving 115 FO's captains pay per the by-pass pay section in our contract. Dont plan on seeing that again.

As far as upgrade time goes...there are over 400 FO's on captains pay now at NJA. Any new contract will have a policy that will require any FO's on captain by-pass pay to have a standing bid for captain. This means that if you hired on here today, you would have to wait for well over 400 FO's to be awarded captain befor you get a shot.

A conservitive estimate on upgrade would be 5 years.

I've been here two years and I wont see the left seat for two or three more years. Good news is I was one of the guys that just got the by pass pay! Takes the sting out of cleaning lav's!

Think long and hard before coming here. Do your home work. Untill we get a contract, you wont see the 7&7 schedule for a long time as well.

Good luck.

 

[Majik]

Spoke to a NetJets pilot recently who told me that upgrades were 6mos after date of hiring nowadays???? Any truth to this?

No truth whatsoever!
It will take several years for all of the current FOs to upgrade and there will be no more efforts where the entire membership holds off on bids to allow junior FO's to upgrade. That was a one time effort because those FOs, at their time of hire, expected bypass pay like all of the rest of us received. That changed shortly after 9/11. Any newhire today goes in with the knowledge that he will be stuck on FO pay for at least 3 years, maybe more.

 

[paulsalem]

Pilots I talk to at NJA say 6-8 months. One in managment, one an instructor pilot.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Pilots I talk to at NJA say 6-8 months. One in managment, one an instructor pilot.

I wanna know Who?

 

[Majik]

Pilots I talk to at NJA say 6-8 months. One in managment, one an instructor pilot.

All I can say is that you had better question your sources and ask them why they think there will be some rapid change in the near future. Pilots hired 2 years ago just received captain bypass pay because of an extraordinary one-time effort to allow junior FOs to bid and be awarded the 400XP. Those pilots hired 2 years ago are not and have not been able to hold any of the bids in the LAST 2 YEARS. There are another 400 plus senior FOs that are on bypass pay that will, under a new contract, have to bid every bid in their fleet or risk reverting back to FO pay. Tell your friends to put down the crack pipe and double check their info. Upgrades for a guy hired off the street today are a long, long way off.

 

[Hawkered]

I upgraded in two weeks...it's just a matter of timing!

 

[Majik]

I upgraded in two weeks...it's just a matter of timing!

Well bully for you. Why don't you let us know your date of hire so that folks won't think that a current newhire can expect to receive an upgrade in two weeks.

 

[Hawkered]

WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


WAAAAHHHHWAAHHHHHHHHH!!!



OH POOR BABY!!


COME AND TAKE THIS BIG PAYING JOB FROM A USAIR CAPTAIN THAT"S ABOUT TO LOSE IT>>>>>POOR THANG!!!



You go girl!



Keep biting the hand that feeds you. Dumbass!

 

[Majik]

WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


WAAAAHHHHWAAHHHHHHHHH!!!



OH POOR BABY!!


COME AND TAKE THIS BIG PAYING JOB FROM A USAIR CAPTAIN THAT"S ABOUT TO LOSE IT>>>>>POOR THANG!!!



You go girl!



Keep biting the hand that feeds you. Dumbass!

Who was that meant for, me?

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

I wouldn't pay any attention to it. It's just another of flightinfo's finest, doing what they do best. Opening their mouths so their bowels can move. They really can't help it.

 

[Majik]

Question for the NJA people out there - when do the Sovereigns start to arrive on the line and will that have an impact on hiring over the short run? Will newhires get a shot at the Sovereign or will most start on the Beechjet, Ultra, Excel, etc.?

I heard we may get the first one by the end of the year. What will have the biggest impact on hiring is 91k, taking effect in Feb 05, requiring more pilots since it will require a briefed rest and duty will begin after that rest period ends. Currently, you are on standby after 10 hours of rest. You could be on standby for 10 hours and then be called out and expected to fly a 14 hour day.

I'm sure new FOs will be hired into the Sovereign. I've been here over 4 years (seniority # low 700's) and will not be able to hold a captain bid in that plane for a while, so you can bet it will be well over 5 years before a FO hired in the Sovereign would be able to bid captain in that plane.

 

[Fozzy]

Upgrade time is at least 3-4 years. This is a min!!!! Anybody that tells you different is a liar.

As far as the IP and management type that told you different, they are liars and a$$holes.

3-4 years, but count on 6 years, and that is for the 400XP.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

As far as the IP and management type that told you different, they are liars and a$$holes.

And if they REALLY Know something different, the company has been bargaining in bad faith. To wit, they've got the money !

 

[FatesPawn]

Pilots I talk to at NJA say 6-8 months. One in managment, one an instructor pilot.

Here's the reality. I was hired 2 years ago and an upgrade isn't ANYWHERE on the horizon. I think I'm in the high 1800's in seniority. Guys in the 1400 range were PASSING on this most recent 400xp bid for the singular purpose to let it go to a couple of super-junior 400xp F/O's (hired in July as mentioned above.) That way, all the guys senior to them (like me) who are seat locked on another airplane can get "Captain's Pay" for whatever that is worth. FYI, second year "Captain's Pay" is about 40grand.

Now that this feat was accomplished, you will see those "more senior" individuals filling vacant Captain seats in the 400xp and Ultra. Why? To get PIC time and get out.

The only way you ~might~ have a chance at an upgrade in less than 2 years would be if you were awarded the 400xp or Ultra as a newhire - and that's only considering the flow of 400's continues. If you are hired onto an APU-airplane, forget it. The Ultra Captains of today will fill those positions.

Remember, when you talk to Netjets pilots, you have to ask "Are you talking about getting Captain's PAY or are you talking about getting a Captain's AWARD?"

It is a lot easier to get paid like a Captain here than it is to get a bid to actually FLY as a Captain.

And I use the term "Captain's pay" VERY loosly.

The bottom line is this is NOT a company to come to build Turbine PIC time.

Fate

 

[Lord Wakefield]

The bottom line is this is NOT a company to come to build Turbine PIC time.

Fate

And then, just because you bid captain (or were forced to "upgrade') doesn't actually mean you'll be flying as PIC. I saw two lifers flying together on the X last week.

 

[gordon24]

And then, just because you bid captain (or were forced to "upgrade') doesn't actually mean you'll be flying as PIC. I saw two lifers flying together on the X last week.

Yea, how does that work? In training they said it would all be SIC according to the company. But, some guys were saying that when you are flying (sole manp. of the controls) and that since you have a type, you could log it as PIC. I guess they have a point. I just don't know how that would look to another employer.

 

[gunfyter]

What you log in your own logbook is your own business... but nobody cares who manipulates the controls.... Besides thats the Autopilot.