NetJets representin' in ProPilot Mag

[PseudoName]

Some of you probably have read this one. In the latest ProPilot Magazine, Squawk Ident section......the question was:

What employment changes would you like to receive that you don't have now?

Leave it to New Jet pilot, Robert Armstrong, ATP/CFII, Citation Excel Captain to reply with the only unrealistic reply to the question. I have a feeling the editorial staff printed his reply as a joke, similar to one other reply (a Home Depot pilot). The only difference was that the Home Depot pilot was joking....and made it clear in his post.

This was Captain Armstrong's request to Squawk Ident:

Typed F/O's should start at 50K (fractional wages).
5 year Captain should make 100K (fractional wages).
Living at home and company flying you to the airplane
7 on/7 off schedule
Disability insurance
401K w/50% match
3 weeks vacation after 5 years
Medical, dental, sick leave
Company funded legal counsel

The above was listed as a beginning point for benefits!


.....after my laughing subsided, I turned a few pages to the salary survey, compared my salary to what the averages are.....and then to the fractional pay. Holy cow, I am going to send in an application to NJA.

They have the better deal with the amount of days they work!! Hey, it's not just my opinion, but the opinion of the majority of other Part 135 pilots too.

 

[dime line]

and how far off is he in your thinking?

 

[PseudoName]

and how far off is he in your thinking?

Just not my thinking......most of the 135 world as well.

Review the averages in the ProPilot survey for charter captains and F/O's, then subtract a few thousand for fractional pilot pay.....since they have two weeks scheduled time off per month!

NJA wants 100K in year 5. What a crock!

ProPilot Charter Light Jet Captain-Average: 57K
ProPilot Charter Super-midsize/midsize Jet Captain-Average: 72K
ProPilot Charter (DA2000/C-X) Jet Captain-Average: 93K

I just don't see how NJA can justify to pay their 5 year guys 100K when compared to ACTUAL numbers in the industry (Part 91/135).

 

[D_G]

Some pilots feel that they should be paid what they are worth, someone like you obviously doesn't think they're worth very much. 100K isn't sh!t in todays market, ANY captain of any aircraft should make 100K after 5 years.

 

[dsptchrnja]

I personally feel our pilots should be paid the highest of all the fractional companies, all things considered. There is a current proposal from the company that will put them there if passed by the union.

 

[Diesel]

yeah we'll be the highest paid but no benefits. Yeah that makes sense. haaaaa

 

[aeronautic1]

$72K start for mid

... if you use a 5% per annum increase, then if the starting captain salary is $72K, at 5 years that salary would increase to $91,892. How many of us get a 5% pay increase every year in the 135/91 industry?

There are pilots out there just happy to have a job doing what they love. And then you have disgruntled furloughed airline types who have missed the brass ring and want to recoup what they have lost. There should be a happy medium, but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

As my pappy (34.5 years @ CO) used to say, "son, you don't have to be too smart to be an airline pilot." Personally, I hope that NJA pilots gets a HUGE pay increase. Because that will force the rest of the industry to pony up. Once again, NJA will be getting a HUGE influx of qualified pilots from the 135/91 community leaving room for the less than qualified to gain experience in 135/91 - - so that the delicate balance that is the cycle of life continues.

 

[PseudoName]

Some pilots feel that they should be paid what they are worth, someone like you obviously doesn't think they're worth very much. QUOTE]

Not true. I just don't believe NJA guys that fly a Citation who work every other week should get paid 100K. Go ahead, keep demanding that pay, and the rest of the corporate world will be watching you dig deeper, and deeper.

 

[rice]

Just not my thinking......most of the 135 world as well.

Review the averages in the ProPilot survey for charter captains and F/O's, then subtract a few thousand for fractional pilot pay.....since they have two weeks scheduled time off per month!

NJA wants 100K in year 5. What a crock!

ProPilot Charter Light Jet Captain-Average: 57K
ProPilot Charter Super-midsize/midsize Jet Captain-Average: 72K
ProPilot Charter (DA2000/C-X) Jet Captain-Average: 93K

I just don't see how NJA can justify to pay their 5 year guys 100K when compared to ACTUAL numbers in the industry (Part 91/135).

Psuedo,
I'm not a frac pilot and don'treally ever want to be one. That said, I feel that it's people like you who've brought the compensation in this industry to its knees over the last 10 years or so. (Yeah the NJA guys are also to blame for the horribly low wages they accepted upon employment, but thats another story) $100k isn't squat these days in the NE!!!! Try buying a house, car, saving for college/retirement on that. Remember, NJA doe not differentiate pay between aircraft or location so the guy living in BFE has a much higher standard of living than someone on a coast. I don't believe anyone is trying to get rich off the company's dime but they are demanding a liveable wage after devoting a substantial amount of time in service of the company. Bottom line is that with such a geographically diverse work force the pay must reflect what is "liveable" for the highest cost area under the current system.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

Some pilots feel that they should be paid what they are worth, someone like you obviously doesn't think they're worth very much. QUOTE]

Not true. I just don't believe NJA guys that fly a Citation who work every other week should get paid 100K. Go ahead, keep demanding that pay, and the rest of the corporate world will be watching you dig deeper, and deeper.

Let me guess, you live at home, work at McDonald's and just bought some new CD's for your ride and life is good for you?

I can't wait for you to join the real world! Better get snipped now so that you won't have to feed, buy clothes, put through school, buy all those things that mommy and daddy have bought for you, pay for a house, pay bills, buy insurance, etc., etc., etc., for the family that you never want to have.

 

[PseudoName]

I can't wait for you to join the real world!

Really? Hmmm, I have a house payment, car payment, school loans, and a few mouths to feed in a rather expensive area of the US. While making UNDER 100K flying a midsize cabin class aircraft, after all the bills are paid and money in the 401K, I still have $$ to go out and enjoy life.

My method? Living within my means!

Sure I would love to be paid more and work less, wouldn't we all.

It's looking at the glass half full, not half empty.

 

[Some guy]

... if you use a 5% per annum increase, then if the starting captain salary is $72K, at 5 years that salary would increase to $91,892. How many of us get a 5% pay increase every year in the 135/91 industry?

NetJet Pilots don't get 5% raises. They get 7-12% annual raises which is more than double the 3% annual raise most everyone gets at Bridgeway / Easton. If a Captains starting salary is $72k, and that Captain receives the minimum annual raise of 7%, the 5 year salary would be $100,978.

 

[Hogprint]

There was an interesting article in the paper a month or so ago. It was basically showing how and what US consumers spent their money on.

It brought up a few points that are germane to this debate.

The biggest is the paradigm shift of what is considered rich and what is considered middle class.

Their point is yesterdays 100k, the six figure threshold that once defined success, is now in todays money 200k. That would bring up the middle class definition and the poverty line. Middle class would now start around 60-80k.

Upper management at any company must love their workers fighting over late 80's and early 90's wage models.

 

[Publishers]

I was once offered a job in SFO at a good wage for most of the country. It was not enough for SFO. I declined. You cannot expect Netjets or any other employer to pay a certain wage so you can live in Manhattan or SFO.

 

[Hogprint]

Publishers,

In effect, that is exactly what they were doing. Any new hire would have had to move to a metro area where cost of living is well above the median average.

It was still a condition in their later proposals.

 

[CMHTroll]

Publishers,

In effect, that is exactly what they were doing. Any new hire would have had to move to a metro area where cost of living is well above the median average.

It was still a condition in their later proposals.

You are correct. WHich means any pilot who joins before the TA is ratified will get to live where ever they want.

 

[JustInfo]

"yeah we'll be the highest paid but no benefits. Yeah that makes sense. haaaaa"

Actually to be fair and accurate the proposal included all the benefits we now have plus more...

 

[buttercup]

Really? Hmmm, I have a house payment, car payment, school loans, and a few mouths to feed in a rather expensive area of the US. While making UNDER 100K flying a midsize cabin class aircraft, after all the bills are paid and money in the 401K, I still have $$ to go out and enjoy life.

My method? Living within my means!

Sure I would love to be paid more and work less, wouldn't we all.

It's looking at the glass half full, not half empty.

Define "rather expensive" part of the country you self-worthless **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**face!! 100K a year will make the payments on a 1 bedroom Co-op where I live.. 100K was good ten years ago..not now!!

 

[suen1843]

Define "rather expensive" part of the country you self-worthless **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**face!! 100K a year will make the payments on a 1 bedroom Co-op where I live.. 100K was good ten years ago..not now!!

Have you considered moving? Where I live $100k will support 10 acres with a 4000 sq. ft. home (and a 30 foot fishing boat!) with lots left over.

 

[buttercup]

Have you considered moving? Where I live $100k will support 10 acres with a 4000 sq. ft. home (and a 30 foot fishing boat!) with lots left over.

I believe you but really..100k isnt alot of money.. Thats a Wall Street quaterly bonus..God what has happened to this **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing industry? Think about those nights away from home..but a price on that!!