NetJets PTO and Vacation Q's

[Flash 7]

Hey Guys,

I was wondering how your PTO days work. I know you can accumulate up to 75( 1 per month). Are these Flex days that can be used at any time? 1 day or multiples? Can they be used for Personal time? How does that work?

Also is the current PTO policy changing if the new TA is ratified?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Majik]

Currently we have sick days only. You accrue one per month and can have up to 75. They can "only" (cough cough) be used if you are sick.

In the new proposal you accrue one PTO (paid time off) day per month. There is a short term bank and a long term bank. 24 days can accrue in the short term bank. These days may be used for sick days or you can bid (minimum 3 days advanced notice) for a day or days off. There are 20 blackout periods (days company deems busy) per year, a maximum of 30 days per year, where PTOs are not available for bid. The company will limit the number of pilots they will let take a PTO day. Bids for PTO days will be awarded by seniority in fleet/seat.

Days accrued over 24 can either go into the Long Term Bank or can be sold back to the company for up to 110% of your daily rate of pay, depending on the number of days you sell back. You can never transfer days from the LTB into the STB. Days in the long term bank can only be used for Family Medical Leave (pays 100% of your daily rate), or for disability. If you are disabled the company pays you 60% of your daily rate. You could use each day in your long term bank to pay the remaining 40% of your daily rate, bringing you up to 100% when combined with the 60% disability pay. The smart thing to do is to sell your days accrued over 24 at 110%. Then if you become disabled, you draw 60% disability pay and fund the remaining 40% from the money you made selling days at the 110% rate.

Seems like a complicated system and I may have made a few boo boos in my answer but I think that's the gist of it.

 

[SteveC]

Currently we have sick days only. You accrue one per month and can have up to 75. They can "only" (cough cough) be used if you are sick.

In the new proposal you accrue one PTO (paid time off) day per month. There is a short term bank and a long term bank. 24 days can accrue in the short term bank. These days may be used for sick days or you can bid (minimum 3 days advanced notice) for a day or days off. There are 20 blackout periods (days company deems busy) per year, a maximum of 30 days per year, where PTOs are not available for bid. The company will limit the number of pilots they will let take a PTO day. Bids for PTO days will be awarded by seniority in fleet/seat.

Days accrued over 24 can either go into the Long Term Bank or can be sold back to the company for up to 110% of your daily rate of pay, depending on the number of days you sell back. You can never transfer days from the LTB into the STB. Days in the long term bank can only be used for Family Medical Leave (pays 100% of your daily rate), or for disability. If you are disabled the company pays you 60% of your daily rate. You could use each day in your long term bank to pay the remaining 40% of your daily rate, bringing you up to 100% when combined with the 60% disability pay. The smart thing to do is to sell your days accrued over 24 at 110%. Then if you become disabled, you draw 60% disability pay and fund the remaining 40% from the money you made selling days at the 110% rate.

Seems like a complicated system and I may have made a few boo boos in my answer but I think that's the gist of it.

Majik, thanks for typing that out. My wife and I were discussing the pros and cons of NetJets in regards to our personal QOL issues, and having the ability to get specific days off for special occasions (without having to take vacation for a full seven days) was one of the unanswered questions we had.

I'm only bumping this back up to see if you, or anyone else, has learned anything new or has any additional clarification to add on this topic?

 

[BengalsFan]

Soooo.... if you have a kid that plays high school football, and you would like to attend all the Friday night games during the football season (about 7-9 per year depending on how good they are)... can this be a reality?

 

[RNObased]

Soooo.... if you have a kid that plays high school football, and you would like to attend all the Friday night games during the football season (about 7-9 per year depending on how good they are)... can this be a reality?

In a perfect world maybe, in the NJA world. I would say NO. Even with PTOs the tours would lay out so that you, would A run out of days and not be able to bid anymore PTOs or B the days could possibley be denied. Could you make half, probably. But I can think of very few places where you would have this option. Unless you are very senior and I mean very.

 

[SteveC]

Soooo.... if you have a kid that plays high school football, and you would like to attend all the Friday night games during the football season (about 7-9 per year depending on how good they are)... can this be a reality?

In a perfect world maybe, in the NJA world. I would say NO. Even with PTOs the tours would lay out so that you, would A run out of days and not be able to bid anymore PTOs or B the days could possibley be denied. Could you make half, probably. But I can think of very few places where you would have this option. Unless you are very senior and I mean very.

So if you were working a 7/7 schedule you would automatically make 1/2 of the games, and then if you bid PTO for the rest you might get 1/2 of those? Not too shabby if you could make 6 out of 8 games (all hypothetical...).

 

[FLYLOW22]

Regarding PTO...

THey are bid for in seniority order. There are some "blackout" dates the company may designate during peak periods. Also, PTO can only beutilized at the beginning or end of a tour. No PTO for just a day in the middle of 7 on. The beginning of the tour or end must touch the PTO. Also, the number of PTO days a pilot accrues will be based on longevity. I forget the breakdown but I believe the most a senior pilot may get is 7 days of PTO.

Now, all this in mind... If you bid the right 7n7 with Jr's game on the 1st or last day of the tour (Friday ie) and you want the PTO to see the game, then "game on". :beer:

 

[RNObased]

So if you were working a 7/7 schedule you would automatically make 1/2 of the games, and then if you bid PTO for the rest you might get 1/2 of those? Not too shabby if you could make 6 out of 8 games (all hypothetical...).

However as a new hire, you have no or a limited number of PTOs and are bidding against senior guys, the ability to see EVERY game is unrealistic. Won't happen. Half or just over half of them yes, every game, no way.

Unless you are willing to take a unpaid leave of absense on every friday, but that too is suject to approval from the powers that be. But that is also not a realistic idea.

 

[SteveC]

However as a new hire, you have no or a limited number of PTOs and are bidding against senior guys, the ability to see EVERY game is unrealistic. Won't happen. Half or just over half of them yes, every game, no way.

Unless you are willing to take a unpaid leave of absense on every friday, but that too is suject to approval from the powers that be. But that is also not a realistic idea.

But don't you automatically have 1/2 of them off already with a 7/7 schedule? Then you just need to get two out of the other four and you'd be at 6 of 8?

I'm not really arguing the details, just trying to make sure I understand what you mean by "half or just over half".

 

[fischman]

Soooo.... if you have a kid that plays high school football, and you would like to attend all the Friday night games during the football season (about 7-9 per year depending on how good they are)... can this be a reality?

The other option is to bid a 7&7 line that starts on Saturday. You will be able to make the game the day before you leave, and will USUALLY make it home in time to see the game the next Friday when you get home. (I USUALLY walk in my door by 1800 to 1900 lcl and live about 45 minutes from the airport.)

The other option no one else has brought up is the Preferential Bid System (PBS). Make your #1 choice Fridays off.

 

[CA1900]

I was wondering how your PTO days work.

So are we. Seriously, the contract vote results won't be in until the 7th, and we haven't had any PTO system up to this point. So it's all new for us, too.

I know you can accumulate up to 75( 1 per month). Are these Flex days that can be used at any time? 1 day or multiples? Can they be used for Personal time? How does that work?

Short version: You accrue one day a month, to use for PTO or sick time. If you accrue more than 24 of them, they move to a long-term bank (up to 51 more days) that can only be used for disability or FMLA. Alternately, you can elect to sell back the days over 24, and bank/invest/waste the money yourself. That's the option I'm choosing.

The PTO days have nothing to do with vacation whatsoever. That's handled separately.

As other have said, you can't use one in the middle of a tour -- you'll have to touch the end of a tour with PTO days, because the contract stipulates that a PTO award can't result in a tour of 4 or fewer days.

Your best bet to get the most number of Friday evenings home, for Bengals' example, would be to find a fleet with a Saturday start. That would get you home on a Friday, so if you bid for Friday PTOs, you'd only lose one day for that. (Or you could roll the dice that you'd get home early on Friday, but that's not likely; I usually do some flying in the morning, then airline home in the afternoon/evening of my last day.)

Also is the current PTO policy changing if the new TA is ratified?

Yes. We don't have a PTO policy right now -- only sick time. This is all new for us, if it passes.


As far as using it: A first-year pilot can't use any personal days. Second-year can use 3, third-year can use 4, fourth gets 5, fifth gets 6, and anyone with more than 6 years' seniority can use up to 7 personal days each year.

Hope that helps.

 

[RNObased]

I'm not really arguing the details, just trying to make sure I understand what you mean by "half or just over half".

Half or just over means, you bid a 7/7 line you will get one half of the fridays off. If those games mean that much to you, you throw your vacations in the part of the calender, and maybe you get a couple of PTOs and there you have it. However expecting to get to everyone is wishful thinking. As for bidding a PBS for fridays off, could work in theory, in practice however, time will tell on that one, but knowing scheduling I won't bet on it either. Getting home on a friday can sometimes be a issue if you are a 7/7 guy coming home on that day. I usually land at 8pm on average on my last day.

 

[SteveC]

<deleted the double.>

 

[SteveC]

As far as using it: A first-year pilot can't use any personal days. Second-year can use 3, third-year can use 4, fourth gets 5, fifth gets 6, and anyone with more than 6 years' seniority can use up to 7 personal days each year.

Hope that helps.

I've mostly got it...I think.

Sounds funny, though, that by the end of the second year a new hire will have accrued a full bank of 24 PTOs and will only have been allowed to use 3 for personal use? Sounds like implied encouragement to <cough, cough> call in sick rather than schedule days off as needed - not a good situation for pilot or employer to my way of thinking.

I guess this is kind of premature speculation on my part since the program hasn't even been put into place yet. Just curious how people think this will work (or not) in reality.

 

[CA1900]

Sounds funny, though, that by the end of the second year a new hire will have accrued a full bank of 24 PTOs and will only have been allowed to use 3 for personal use? Sounds like implied encouragement to <cough, cough> call in sick rather than schedule days off as needed - not a good situation for pilot or employer to my way of thinking.

Well hey, it's 3 more than we get now. Right now, the cough-cough is the only option we have, other than requesting an unpaid LOA. The TA also includes a provision to swap tours (once per 4-month bid) with another pilot in the same fleet and seat. That might let you cover an important day, too.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If U R on the 7/7 schedule, can you sway a week with another pilot???

cliff
INT

 

[RNObased]

Hi!

If U R on the 7/7 schedule, can you sway a week with another pilot???

cliff
INT

So then you are on the road for 14days??? Is that what you are looking at??

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yes. I wanted to know if you could switch weeks. That would mean you would be 14/14 until you got back to your normal 7/7.

cliff
INT

 

[CaveoFalco]

Hi!

Yes. I wanted to know if you could switch weeks. That would mean you would be 14/14 until you got back to your normal 7/7.

cliff
INT

Nope - no tour swap will result in fewer than 3 days off between tours for either crewmember.