NetJets' profitability

[G4dude]

I find it so amusing how it was doom and gloom, fiery flaming pit of death during contract negotiations, and now, with fuel more expensive than ever, all of a sudden a profit is being made, with much higher pilot costs than before.

What a bunch of f-ing tools. Liars. I just don't know how they sleep at night.

How utterly amusing! The reason NJA lost so much money last year was the deliberate and unconsionable grounding of perfectly good airplanes, in order to put pressure on Santulli. I had two NJA FOs visit me as I sat in my Gulfstream to tell me about what was going on. They were disgusted, to say the least.

 

[G4dude]

I second that. The other day the dispatcher filed an RNAV SID out of LAS for our Ultra. When the Captain called and asked why he did that they said that dispatcher rarely worked Ultra's and wasn't aware or forgot about the no RNAV SID/STAR restriction we've had for many months now.


AirBear

Hey Bear, how are you enjoying NJA? I remember when you were preparing to come on board, hope all is working out.

 

[Correcting]

Deliberate...

Unconscionable...

Yep, that pretty much sums up Santulli.

Our collective NJA pilot conscience is clean. Our wallets our fatter. Santulli stuck it to us for 4 years. We finally stuck up for ourselves. He had it coming. He wanted a good fight, and he got it.

I don't know how you G-WIZ boys do it, but at NJA, we don't fly broken planes. Not one single plane was written up that didn't have a legit writeup. We just stopped doing anything more than the absolute minimum that was expected of us, just to kind of show the company how much of a difference motivated pilots really do make.

And now we're on the verge of profitability. Gee, go figure.

 

[DO-82 driver]

And don't forget the amount of money NJA had to pay in grievance settlements.......10's of millions of dollars. You break the agreed work rules...you will pay for it...eventually.

Thank you 1108.....my garage being built right now is from the monies you got for me in grievances and retro pay.

 

[Diesel]

How do you ground a perfectly good airplane? hmmm

if a tree falls on a gulfstream pilot does anyone really care?

 

[gunfyter]

COTA is hiring!

Got a friend says 5th yr bus driver is $69K... same as was originally offered to NJA Captains in failed TA.

http://www.cota.com/cota/cotaweb/jobopenings.xml?intPageID=50&intSectionID=5&pid=,49

 

[G4dude]

Deliberate...

Unconscionable...

Yep, that pretty much sums up Santulli.

Our collective NJA pilot conscience is clean. Our wallets our fatter. Santulli stuck it to us for 4 years. We finally stuck up for ourselves. He had it coming. He wanted a good fight, and he got it.

I don't know how you G-WIZ boys do it, but at NJA, we don't fly broken planes. Not one single plane was written up that didn't have a legit writeup. We just stopped doing anything more than the absolute minimum that was expected of us, just to kind of show the company how much of a difference motivated pilots really do make.



And now we're on the verge of profitability. Gee, go figure.

Absolute bullsh*t. The FOs told me the real score, how you guys had a list of things to squawk which were not MELable. Don't kid a kidder.

 

[imotis]

Deliberate...

Unconscionable...

Yep, that pretty much sums up Santulli.

Our collective NJA pilot conscience is clean. Our wallets our fatter. Santulli stuck it to us for 4 years. We finally stuck up for ourselves. He had it coming. He wanted a good fight, and he got it.

I don't know how you G-WIZ boys do it, but at NJA, we don't fly broken planes. Not one single plane was written up that didn't have a legit writeup. We just stopped doing anything more than the absolute minimum that was expected of us, just to kind of show the company how much of a difference motivated pilots really do make.

And now we're on the verge of profitability. Gee, go figure.

I heard that during the negotiations the dispatch rate of the aircraft were way, way down compared to what it suddenly is now that the contract is signed. Since the planes don't become more or less reliable after a contract is signed were some pilots making non-legit write ups then or are they now pocketing the write ups that they should really be reporting? I don't think you can have it both ways.

 

[hydrarkt]

So it who cares if its mel'able or not. If its broke its broke.

Nobody cared when 4 years of stalled negotiations screwed the pilots. But all of a sudden the pilots stand up and say no more and we're the bad guys?

Riiiight.

PS the company fixed that under the mco program so that argument doesn't hold weight either.

imotis- isn't a low moral employee much less productive than an employee that is happy and feels the company cares about him the same way? Just ask the Floor people if about low moral. Or any pilot a couple of months ago.. pre contract

 

[Majik]

Absolute bullsh*t. The FOs told me the real score, how you guys had a list of things to squawk which were not MELable. Don't kid a kidder.

Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense. We only wrote up the broken things that were not MELable and continued to fly with broken things that were MELable.

Also, what does that say about your "friends"? You're claiming they sat idly by and watched their Captains make up grounding squawks that weren't really broken??? I'd say (if that really happened) that they were just as guilty as the people they are accusing of making up squawks.

And are those FOs still cashing their full paychecks or are they giving back the increase that was obtained (as you say) illicitly?

Finally, what does that say about you, a member of the NetJets Family, to just let that pass. I mean, there you sat, with witnesses, dates, and facts that have you completely convinced that there was wrongdoing, and you did nothing but throw useless allegations on a message board.

Now I would be foolish to think that, out of over 2000 pilots, that there was never an instance of someone fabricating a single write-up. But I never saw or heard of another pilot that saw someone do this. I don't know about the Gulfstream but I do know that I can go out and preflight most any Cessna and find something that doesn't meet the legal requirements and specifications of the FAA and aircraft manufacturer.

So, one of the many reasons (selling off the core fleet, overselling Marquis, funding losses and building a new HQ for NJE) NetJets lost money was because it took Santulli 4+ years to realize how important it was to have reasonably satisfied employees in the pointy end of his jets and that these pilots weren't going to bought off with a few beads and trinkets.

 

[imotis]

So it who cares if its mel'able or not. If its broke its broke.

Nobody cared when 4 years of stalled negotiations screwed the pilots. But all of a sudden the pilots stand up and say no more and we're the bad guys?

Riiiight.

PS the company fixed that under the mco program so that argument doesn't hold weight either.

imotis- isn't a low moral employee much less productive than an employee that is happy and feels the company cares about him the same way? Just ask the Floor people if about low moral. Or any pilot a couple of months ago.. pre contract

I agree with you 100% about moral issues. However, aircraft have no moral, if it's broke, it's broke. If it's not, it's not. Either they broke more before the contract was signed or they didn't.

 

[Majik]

Since the planes don't become more or less reliable after a contract is signed were some pilots making non-legit write ups then or are they now pocketing the write ups that they should really be reporting? I don't think you can have it both ways.

Consider this as you search for a world where everything is always black and white... Are you really claiming that you always do such a thorough and complete preflight that another pilot, immediately doing a detailed preflight of the same aircraft would never find anything you missed that might not meet specifications?

So are you just a sloppy preflighter or are you actually experienced enough to preflight an aircraft and know what is essential for a safe flight and let the minor (but technically illegal) stuff slide until a more convenient time and place to get it repaired?

Did that help put the situation in perspective or are you still murky?

 

[AirBear8]

Hey Bear, how are you enjoying NJA? I remember when you were preparing to come on board, hope all is working out.

It's working out great, I'm on 2nd F/O year pay and making more than I did as a 3rd year CRJ Captain at my last job. Commuting is a distant memory and I should upgrade within a year. This would be a fantastic job for most regional and even some major airline types if they live near a domicile. I haven't found any NetJets pilots furloughed from a major airline who plan to accept recall.

AirBear

 

[DO-82 driver]

Bear....for all of our sake I pray the pool of qualified pilots locate near NetJets domiciles dries up real soon......

If not, this Company MAY consider those pilot less qualified for the position but are more suitable for their relative proximty to a domcile for enployment.

A number of the people I have flown with very recently are quite "interesting" to say the least.

When instructors at FSI shake their heads about some of our recent new hires....I begin to worry.

The worrying has begun....You get what you pay for.

 

[RTRHD]

We know 4 Dude is correct. (hot water in a X) (The VSI that only goes to 6,000 on mod.X but the FSI manual say’s 10,000 on mod.Y in test mode) I got that straight from a maintenance rep a DAL. We are done with that now, let’s make money and stay employed. I like seven off, but I am getting tired of my wife’s to do list.

 

[gutshotdraw]

RTRHD,

The technical term is honeydo.......

 

[G4dude]

Ahhh, that makes a lot of sense. We only wrote up the broken things that were not MELable and continued to fly with broken things that were MELable.

Also, what does that say about your "friends"? You're claiming they sat idly by and watched their Captains make up grounding squawks that weren't really broken??? I'd say (if that really happened) that they were just as guilty as the people they are accusing of making up squawks.

And are those FOs still cashing their full paychecks or are they giving back the increase that was obtained (as you say) illicitly?

Finally, what does that say about you, a member of the NetJets Family, to just let that pass. I mean, there you sat, with witnesses, dates, and facts that have you completely convinced that there was wrongdoing, and you did nothing but throw useless allegations on a message board.

Now I would be foolish to think that, out of over 2000 pilots, that there was never an instance of someone fabricating a single write-up. But I never saw or heard of another pilot that saw someone do this. I don't know about the Gulfstream but I do know that I can go out and preflight most any Cessna and find something that doesn't meet the legal requirements and specifications of the FAA and aircraft manufacturer.

So, one of the many reasons (selling off the core fleet, overselling Marquis, funding losses and building a new HQ for NJE) NetJets lost money was because it took Santulli 4+ years to realize how important it was to have reasonably satisfied employees in the pointy end of his jets and that these pilots weren't going to bought off with a few beads and trinkets.

I am just quoting what two frustrated FOs told me. Airplanes grounded to pressure Santulli certainly cost NJA tons of money. Can you imagine what the union radicals would have done to any FOs who reported captains for unnecessarily grounding planes? To conclude that some captains were not engaging in such coercive, immoral behavior is rather silly, given what those FOs told me.

 

[G4dude]

So it who cares if its mel'able or not. If its broke its broke.

Nobody cared when 4 years of stalled negotiations screwed the pilots. But all of a sudden the pilots stand up and say no more and we're the bad guys?

Riiiight.

PS the company fixed that under the mco program so that argument doesn't hold weight either.

imotis- isn't a low moral employee much less productive than an employee that is happy and feels the company cares about him the same way? Just ask the Floor people if about low moral. Or any pilot a couple of months ago.. pre contract

I get hazy about acronyms sometimes...what is the mco program?

 

[RTRHD]

RTRHD,

The technical term is honeydo.......

But Gut, It never ends.EVER

 

[Majik]

I am just quoting what two frustrated FOs told me. Airplanes grounded to pressure Santulli certainly cost NJA tons of money. Can you imagine what the union radicals would have done to any FOs who reported captains for unnecessarily grounding planes? To conclude that some captains were not engaging in such coercive, immoral behavior is rather silly, given what those FOs told me.

The union was very specific that nobody do anything like you described. Our instructions were to follow the contract and FAR's. I just find it hard to believe that you met 2 FOs that went quietly along with something that they felt was immoral and could also cost them their job. I think the 2 guys you are referring to may have witnessed captains writing up something that was minor, yet technically legal and correct. I'm not naive enough to think that there was never an instance of somebody falsifying a write up but you make it sound like it was something mainstream, which is absolutely not true. Maybe these 2 FOs were dazzled and enamored with the opportunity to speak to a real live Gulfstream pilot and were overcome with the desire to gain your favor and exaggerated their stories.,,

Also, do you think Santulli saved money by waiting 4 years to pay the salary increases or did the 5 month period of pilots following the rules to the letter negate the money saved by dragging out negotiations for 4+ years?