NetJets (or any frax) & 121 jumpseating

[ForgedBlade]

What's the general consensus on Frax guys having the ability to catch a 121 jumpseat? We had a person from NetJets ask for a jumpseat on us last week and as far as we knew, they weren't on ours (or any others) "lists". We let that person on anyway, but we were both sure that the 91 operators wouldn't have any 121 priveleges for jumpseating. Any opinions? Just curious.

 

[marqmarq]

NJA

NJA operates as both 91 and 135.

 

[Fozzy]

We also operate under a 135 certificate.
Some of the commuter's and regional's will let us jumpseat. I know we did when I was at commutair. But that is not saying much because we let everyone and anyone jumpseat.
Also, I know southwest is pretty good about giving us a ride.
I was airlineing (sp) home from somewhere in TX a few months ago (with ticket), and the captain asked if I had paid for the ticket, and said I was welcome to jumpseat. I was kind of shocked.

 

[F9 Driver]

In the post 9/11 world we F9 pilots have little say about off line jumpseaters. We could deny boarding, but trying to get someone who isn't on the list on board could be tricky.

The gate agents check ID against the list, assign a seat in back, and have the pilot stop by and say hello/show us their ID on the way in.

That being said I try and go up to the podium on every stop. If you see the captain it can't hurt to ask. If there is a way most will try and help you get home.

I was EJA for 3+ years and understand

 

[LXJ31]

Jumpseating

I know of only one guy at our company that jumpseats and he does it usually on SW short hops. Flexjet has both 91 and 135 certs. I tried jumpseating a few years ago (pre 9/11) and got torn a new one from a National Airlines captain who literally detonated in my face. I thought the poor guy was going to have a stroke when a simple "no" would have sufficed. He did fill me on his view of "Flexjets, Netjets, Santulli and dem guys...operating illegally and whatnot." Apparently, he had been making a comfortable living as a G-IV captain in SoCal when his company/owner sold the plane and bought a Netjets share. Then he made that point that I was probably making more money than him. (Right...a Flexjet FO making more bread than 757 Captain; even at National thats ridiculous.)

Well, at the end of all this, he changed his mind and let me ride but still made me feel like a heel. I fully understood his point that there is very little chance a 121 pilot would be able to get reciprocation from us. Most everyone I fly with would be happy to have someone ride with us on empty legs, but how often is an airline guy/girl going to need a ride from CRG to JYO? Needless to say, I haven't tried the jumpseat since. If I need to go anywhere, I buy a ticket or drive.

 

[fracwashback]

Re: Jumpseating

Well, at the end of all this, he changed his mind and let me ride but still made me feel like a heel.

What a prick. The consolation prize for him is kissing your butt when he's your new-hire F/O. Oops, was that cruel?

 

[fracwashback]

We let that person on anyway, but we were both sure that the 91 operators wouldn't have any 121 priveleges for jumpseating.

It's sort of "in the eye of the beholder..."

There is no regulation stipulating who gets jumpseats and who doesn't. Some companies say 135 and up. Some say 121 and up. Some say "only those on our list and at xyz priority based on the moon."

The "lists" you refer to are usually negotiated between the company, union the other company, and the other union.

As a frac pilot, I would never count on a jumpseat, but I would never hesitate to ask if it meant getting home a little earlier.

The worst answer would be like that national pilot described above. I would not hesitate to tell him to kiss my $#&.

 

[j41driver]

If there is a way most will try and help you get home.

I was EJA for 3+ years and understand

I thought that EJA always bought tickets for their pilots to get to/from home. Is this not the case?

 

[DarnNearaJet]

What are the chances of jumpseating on a Fractional flight?

 

[F9 Driver]

J41Driver,

EJA ALWAYS bought tickets to/from home "gateway," but if I wanted to get anywhere else I'd thumb it or buy a ticket. I only ment that I understand that you have few if any options to jumpseat as a frax pilot.

There was a looser who got himself fired from EJA just before I was hired by jumpseating and trading in his fully refundable "Y" fare ticket upon getting home. He got EJA a bad rap for a while, and was fired for his trouble.

Fracwashback,

The deal is today that each airline can fill the BACK with whoever they choose. There are company rules although no FAR's governing who and how many get the free seats in back. Depending on the company breaking these rules can get you just as fired as violating a FAR. The actual jumpseat in the cockpit is tightly controlled.

It can be tough to get on as a jumpseater even if you are on the list (eg. UAL only allows as many jumpseaters as there are jumpseats on the airplane even if there are 50 empty open seats.) We, and several others like ATA & UsAir, will fill the back with pilots.

Just remember that the jumpseat is a privledge not a right.

That FO who is kissing your but today just may be able to give you the recomendation tomorrow that will get you a job where you don't have to include your per diem on your mortgage application

 

[fracwashback]

Depending on the company breaking these rules can get you just as fired as violating a FAR. The actual jumpseat in the cockpit is tightly controlled.

Do argument there. Depending on your management you can find yourself in serious trouble if you go "off the list" to allow someone in back. At my former 121 company, they could care less - as long as you could sweet talk the gate agent for 30 seconds of the Captain's time.

It can be tough to get on as a jumpseater even if you are on the list (eg. UAL only allows as many jumpseaters as there are jumpseats on the airplane even if there are 50 empty open seats.) We, and several others like ATA & UsAir, will fill the back with pilots.

It's the "filling the back" carriers that I would look for when asking for a jumpseat - if I ever choose to do so. I haven't rode a jumpseat in over 3 years. "Unlimited Jumpseaters" is another word for "free non-reving," albiet at the LOWEST possible priority

Just remember that the jumpseat is a privledge not a right.

Many people don't know that fact - and that's a good reason for keeping random 135 pilots/fractional pilots out of the airplane. The LAST thing airlines need is a disruptive jumpseater in First Class demanding another free Jack and Coke.

I had a ATC dude mooching my jumpseat one day (in a former life) but his wife was a Y-class in back. Saving a buck on vacation I guess. OMG, his wife gave my flight attendants SO much trouble. It's tough for an FA to come up front and bitch about "so and so is doing this..." when her husband is sitting between you and the F/O. We had a talk with the ATC guy. His wife got him in trouble. UFB.

That FO who is kissing your but today just may be able to give you the recomendation tomorrow that will get you a job where you don't have to include your per diem on your mortgage application

You speak the truth. That's how I got my current job! But he never kissed my butt. He treated me like the dog I was

 

[LXJ31]

Your right

Absolutely. No doubt there are people out there with the manners of a stoned goat and view the jumpseat as their birthright. But I don't think its endemic to just one group (135/121/91 pilots, ATC, FAA) as my experience was that %99 of people know how to conduct themselves. That %1 tends to be the sociopaths of the world that can't get along anywhere.

My wife is a SW FA and she says that most of the JS pilots they get are friendly and gracious, but there are few that tend to be pompous and dismissive. (Pilots? Noooooo....) For the record, she says the JS riders who aren't the nicest are rare and rarely seen again; the regular ones (like the last LAX-PHX of the night) are the same group most of the time and are very nice. She does think though, that on the occasion they need to get two seats together, like for a mother and child, that the JS riders should be the first to volunteer and often they are not.

 

[FL450]

"There was a looser who got himself fired from EJA just before I was hired by jumpseating and trading in his fully refundable "Y" fare ticket upon getting home. He got EJA a bad rap for a while, and was fired for his trouble."

Last I knew, this individual was flying for UAL. Interesting.

 

[stork]

For everyones information NJA is very close to getting a 121 certificat which they will place the BBJ's on. They are currently operating 135 and are very busy.

 

[Fozzy]

Stork,

Where the hell did you hear that? 121??? That is the first I have heard of it, and I work there. Though I have been on vacation for the last 3 weeks.

 

[aeronautic1]

Jumpseat USair

We are an all jet 135 operation and I just had a nice phone conversation with US JS coordinator and was told that we would not be included on the list at this time as we were an on demand, not scheduled 135 operator. We need to move pilots between Florida and Colorado from time to time. Anyone out there know who I could sned a letter to? PM would be fine.

 

[varicam]

Re: Jumpseat USair

We are an all jet 135 operation and I just had a nice phone conversation with US JS coordinator and was told that we would not be included on the list at this time as we were an on demand, not scheduled 135 operator. We need to move pilots between Florida and Colorado from time to time. Anyone out there know who I could sned a letter to? PM would be fine.

Jumpseats are not for "moving pilots". Quickest way I know for all the pilots of an operator to lose jumpseat privileges is to let the word get out that the parent company is using jumpseat privileges to move pilots on company business.

 

[aeronautic1]

Correct

I phrased it wrong. What I ment to say was that our a/c are based in Florida and Colorado. But some us reside elsewhere. In anycase, it's just not the same as pre 9/11. Thanks varicam

 

[bizjet737]

For everyones information NJA is very close to getting a 121 certificat which they will place the BBJ's on. They are currently operating 135 and are very busy.

yes, we are close to getting our 121 cert. could be anytime in the next 6 months - depends on several factors.

busy? not really. some weeks are, some are totally dead. it has become much busier since we got our 135 cert, however, the operation still is not breaking even.

next week we'll be down to four bbj's - boeing (who owns the first four) is taking one of those four back.

 

[dogg]

Dudes, it all comes down to this......you have nothing to offer in return..... that is why the little scheduled 207/ navajo operators have full blown "reciprocal" deals and you guys never will. Nothing personal, but you can't offer me a ride anywhere and it just gets old, escpecially when lots of people are using the jump seat for other than personal use...We are not all in this together, sorry.........

 

[marqmarq]

Reciprocity

Dogg,

I understand your point about reciprocity, and it is valid. But what do you mean by: "lots of people are using the jump seat for other than personal use"? Frax operators purchase tix for pilots on crew movements. In my experience, I've seen "the little scheduled 207/ navajo operators (etc)" use jumpseating to and from work, it this what you mean? This is not a condemnation, just an observation. The only time I jumpseated to get home (pre-9/11) was when the flight was full and the jumpseat was available. I would have gladly NOT cancelled my tix, but the gate agent insisted. Actually, I would have preferred it, since I didn't get my FF miles!

 

[OldManPilot]

I used to work for a fractional company. We were told that jumpseating on 121 Carriers was not recommended due to the fact that we had no way to reciprocate. That truly is the dividing line. If you cannot due a pilot a favor in reverse (scheduled, not guesswork) than I would suggest leaving the airlines j/s to fellow airline pilots. You are lucky enough to have companies to buy your tickets. Use those tickets, it gives you a positve space seat. If you wish to ride an airline jumpseat, get an airline job. I would not think of asking a fractional for a ride. Especially since you never know when they will be going where you need to go.

 

[flx757]

Dudes, it all comes down to this......you have nothing to offer in return..... that is why the little scheduled 207/ navajo operators have full blown "reciprocal" deals and you guys never will. Nothing personal, but you can't offer me a ride anywhere and it just gets old, escpecially when lots of people are using the jump seat for other than personal use...We are not all in this together, sorry.........

Sorry Dogg...but at my airline, at least one of the fractionals is on our reciprocal list. They have ridden our jumpseats many times, and we are happy to have them.

You seem to be the one that has the problem with this, and the one who is "not all in this together".

 

[NJA Capt]

....you have nothing to offer in return..... that is why the little scheduled 207/ navajo operators have full blown "reciprocal" deals and you guys never will.

Uh, Dude....Talk about nothing to offer. I doubt there are many "major" 121 pilots chomping at the bit to jumpseat on a Navajo or a 207. Get real.

....you have nothing to offer in return.

Tell that to the 8 Northwest flight attendants that one of our planes took back to DTW during a strike a few years ago.

Originally posted by dogg We are not all in this together, sorry.........

Gee, what a gem. Try that one on at your next job interview.