NetJets DAL Encore

[squonk]

Congrats and welcome to the team! Can confirm CP said Encore + may be on the way, but nothing official as of yet. Did put to bed rumors of the EMB 300 or 100 whatever was supposed to be the U-boat replacement. Basically RTS said don't bet on it. E-boat would be a 1/1 exchange for the +. As with anything around here, if it's a rumor it may come true, but don't hold your breath till ya see it on the ramp!

 

[jherk02]

I have some Encore training advice. Try to find out if your training will be in CMH or elsewhere. If you are going to FSI in CMH, don't even bother looking at the Encore info the company gives you. All the "Encore" training at CMH will actually be in the Ultra, followed by differences training. I can't speak as to the "elsewhere" training locations.

So...if your going to CMH, study only Ultra stuff.

Good Luck!

 

[Guitar Guy]

This is similar to the situation in TOL - no Encore sim. Ironically, even if you go to the actual Encore sim in ICT, you still have the Ultra FMS to deal with.

 

[captain dad]

I have been at least scheduled to do my training at ICT. I have a study guide that I am trying to get down before I go. I am assuming that at some point I will need to know both ultra and encore stuff. So I plan to study both anyway.

 

[RTRHD]

I have been at least scheduled to do my training at ICT. I have a study guide that I am trying to get down before I go. I am assuming that at some point I will need to know both ultra and encore stuff. So I plan to study both anyway.

Whats the difference? Cessna has never been big on changing much.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Whats the difference? Cessna has never been big on changing much.

Between the Ultra and Encore?

- Pressurization system
- Wing
- Landing gear
- Brakes (including the anti-skid system)
- Engines (the Encore has over 10% more thrust)
- Max ramp weight, MTOW and MZFW
- Anti-ice/de-ice
- Ice detection
- FMS
- Prist (required in the U-boat but not the E-boat)
- Some of the switches in the cockpit are labelled the same but have different functions
- Electrical system
- Takeoff and landing performance, particularly on contaminated surfaces

But other than that, they're pretty similar.

 

[RTRHD]

Between the Ultra and Encore?

- Pressurization system
- Wing
- Landing gear
- Brakes (including the anti-skid system)
- Engines (the Encore has over 10% more thrust)
- Max ramp weight, MTOW and MZFW
- Anti-ice/de-ice
- Ice detection
- FMS
- Prist (required in the U-boat but not the E-boat)
- Some of the switches in the cockpit are labelled the same but have different functions
- Electrical system
- Takeoff and landing performance, particularly on contaminated surfaces

But other than that, they're pretty similar.

OK,OK I was not being a smart arse, cessna has always done a pretty good job of keeping things simple. I guess that has changed. Is this still a 500 type?

 

[Guitar Guy]

OK,OK I was not being a smart arse, cessna has always done a pretty good job of keeping things simple. I guess that has changed. Is this still a 500 type?

No problem - I didn't think you were being a smart arse. I just thought some other people viewing the thread might find the differences interesting to read.

As for your question, the Ultra and the Encore share a common type rating: CE-500. At my last FSI recurrent in ICT, the instructor said that the FAA initially wasn't going to allow a common type rating between the two planes due to the numerous differences but that the FAA relented just before the Encore was certified.

All in all, Cessna made a lot of improvements between the Ultra and Encore. It'll be interesting to see if the new Encore+ continues in that direction.

 

[Twotter76]

I have been at least scheduled to do my training at ICT. I have a study guide that I am trying to get down before I go. I am assuming that at some point I will need to know both ultra and encore stuff. So I plan to study both anyway.

Be real careful with the study guide unless it is the one the company provides. If you have the Encore book from Cessna some of the limitations are different there than what the company uses. Dont want to memorize the wrong stuff. The book is good for understanding how the systems work though. You will only need to know Ultra stuff long enough to pass the ride - believe me you are much better off in the Encore, the Ultras are getting a little rough around the edges. Where the edges havent fallen off that is...

 

[AirBear8]

Congrats and welcome to the team! Can confirm CP said Encore + may be on the way, but nothing official as of yet. Did put to bed rumors of the EMB 300 or 100 whatever was supposed to be the U-boat replacement. Basically RTS said don't bet on it. E-boat would be a 1/1 exchange for the +. As with anything around here, if it's a rumor it may come true, but don't hold your breath till ya see it on the ramp!

That sales rep I talked to did say just a "handful" of Encore+'s because we're hurting so bad in the light cabin market. Makes sense, many of the pilots going to the plus will only need differences training unless they're outside the CE560 fleet. I asked about Encore vs. Excel prices, a 1/16 share is about $180K more for the Excel so there is somewhat of a difference in price. I'd heard last year that the Encore+ was so close to the Excel in price it didn't make sense to buy them, but now Cessna is going to make an Excel+ also so maybe there will be a market for the Encores.

We finally got a good Encore to fly on day 5 of this tour. Well, good being a relative term seeing as how the #2 Comm is MEL'd so we can only do FAR 91 & 91K flights, no 135 flights with that MEL.

AirBear

 

[wanttofly]

Let me guess, you picked it up at APA with #1 MEL'd, hope the replaced both of the main wheel assemblies. Talked to the crew that flew it in, both mains had to be replaced because the plane was moved with not enough air in the tires. Gave my plane up to the crew so that they could continue and then had to airline back to west coast to meet back up with it. I worked harder on this tour than I have in awhile.

Guitar Guy don't forget about the TCAS. Yes, the switches are just a little different, go ahead and turn the fuel pumps to off in the Encore. I am also surprised that no one has split the boots on the tail from forgeting to turn the switch off. (ultra is only one cycle, the encore will keep cycling)

 

[Guitar Guy]

Guitar Guy don't forget about the TCAS. Yes, the switches are just a little different, go ahead and turn the fuel pumps to off in the Encore. I am also surprised that no one has split the boots on the tail from forgeting to turn the switch off. (ultra is only one cycle, the encore will keep cycling)

I didn't forget the TCAS. I was just listing items that are different between the planes due to Cessna's design choices. TCAS can be had in the Ultra if the operator so chooses. Apparently our company doesn't see the need for it in the Ultras because they're going away so incredibly quickly... (sarcasm)...

 

[A.W.E.S.O.M-O]

Encore Training

I start in the Encore on Nov 27th in ICT. Does anyone know if you train in the Encore sim or the Ultra sim then do the diff. to the Encore?

Also, have any recent new-hires done sim training followed by indoc? Thats what is planned for me and I don't want to feel like Im missing something while in ICT.

Thanks

 

[AirBear8]

I start in the Encore on Nov 27th in ICT. Does anyone know if you train in the Encore sim or the Ultra sim then do the diff. to the Encore?

Also, have any recent new-hires done sim training followed by indoc? Thats what is planned for me and I don't want to feel like Im missing something while in ICT.

Thanks

ICT has the Encore sim but with the Ultra FMS. They give you a CD and some other info on the actual Encore FMS. You'll learn the FMS during aircraft training or IOE.

The only thing you're missing at indoc is lots of alcohol :beer:
Indoc is pretty easy and lots of fun if you have a good class. I remember coming in on a Saturday morning for the Mayo Clinic Advanced First Aid Training. Most the class could have used a serious dose of 100% O2 Unfortunately the instructor didn't bring any.

AirBear

 

[Willy21]

The only thing you are missing by doing the sim first is not knowing how to do an expense report. It will be included in the packet they send you. If you have any questions on filling it out ask. You should have a business card for Wade McConnell. If you have any questions e-mail him. You should also be prepared to pay for your Hotel and rental car and be reimbursed. A lot of people are showing and not expecting to use their own credit card. If you are getting the company card don't expect it to show up until the second week of indoc. for people that do indoc first. If you do sim first I don't know if they mail it to your house or give it to you during indoc. The compnay will reimburse you for everything, but don't go to training without a card that has at least $2,500 available on it. Good in training.