Netjets and Safety?

[Showtime]

I have a friend who is interested in buying a share of an airplane at Netjets. His main concern is safety. For those of you that work there, would you put your family on a NJ plane in bad WX with a random NJ crew flying?

Any comments appreciated.

-Dave

 

[Guitar Guy]

Absolutely I would. I was rather surprised how conservatively they calculate takeoff performance at NJA. I used to do aircraft performance work for about 11 years before I started flying and I never saw anyone apply the amount of conservatism that NJA does.

They really do believe in safety as their first priority and they impress upon new-hires in Indoc that NOTHING trumps safety, not even an owner who "needs" to get somewhere.

So yes, I would definitely trust NJA's operation and pilots. If I didn't believe in their operation, I wouldn't have accepted a job with them.

 

[rajflyboy]

Other Points to consider:

All New Hires at Netjets have at Least 2500 hours with 500 multi and an ATP rating.

All pilots are typed in the aircraft... PIC''s and SIC's. Captains and Co Pilots. Sim training also consists of lofts (after the type ride) into the most difficult airports (Aspen, Telluride, Eagle, South Lake Tahoe).

The pilots are trained and typed in the simulator then trained again in the real aircraft. (Essentially Double Training)

 

[Xdriver]

You bet I would. One thing Netjets does is train train and then train somemore. Its 121 airline type training and then some. Saftey is # 1 here period.

 

[Diesel]

Hey i'm in the pointy end of the thing. Jesus are you retarted?

 

[apache]

This is a very good question to ask. Statistically, all modes of commercial aviation are pretty safe. But with that being said, it has absolutely shocked me to see the quality of some pilots (captains, yikes) that have managed to make it to the top of the food chain in the major I used to fly for and at FLOPS. There are great pilots in all levels of aviation, but the weak-sisters are out there in ever-increasing numbers. I blame it on the HR people who do the hiring in all companies that place importance on everything except experience and attitude. There are far more cockpits at my ex-major and at Flops that I would never allow my family to fly behind than there were at my old commuter from the early '90's.


From what I've seen at NJ, the equipment is top notch and they have a dispatch system that takes a lot of the heat off of the crew for flight planning. That is a lot better than at some of the other fracs. I wouldn't go around saying that the entry level experience (2500TT) is really going above and beyond in creating a safe cockpit. Yonited put 800 TT gals and special people in the cockpit and they haven't killed too many as a result, but I guarantee that they have come VERY close, and have made for a pretty funked-up cockpit on occasion. If NJ would come through with a good contract, they will retain and attract the best.

In my opinion, jet charter operators are near the bottom of the barrel in safety. It is too bad that Flops is turning into just a big charter company. THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY.

 

[Hawkered]

In my new-hire class the average experience was 8,300 hours and three type ratings. Background checks and training issues were followed ten years back...not five. A very professional group of peers!

 

[AA717driver]

Hey, they're waiting on a better contract. The last thing a NJ crew is going to do is kill themselves trying to get in somewhere they shouldn't...

Also, I know they are a pretty good bunch of pilots.TC

 

[rajflyboy]

Flight hours in a log book don't mean that much! But I will certainly take a guy with 2500 (500 Multi and an ATP) over a CRJ or ERJ FO from San Juan college with 350 hours as my first officer. If the flying public only new about some of the crap that goes on with pilot hiring.

At least everyone at NETJETS has basic pilot qualifications

 

[chperplt]

If the flying public only new about some of the crap that goes on with pilot hiring.

Are you implying that regional carriers are the only ones hiring low time, or as you put it, unqualified pilots?

I think the flying public would be more interested to know that their early AM departure is probably being flown by a crew that is on a stand-up overnight. Maybe they would be interested to know that their crew is on day 4 and just came off reduced rest.

Maybe your statement is a bit to wide ranging and should be narrowed some.

 

[rajflyboy]

naa. not attacking the regional airlines... althought that particular case is an outrage!!

There are many different companies that hire low time when there are more experienced pilots out there. This stuff has always gone on.

And yeah... many different things the flying public doesnt realize... like crew rest

 

[miles otoole]

I have a friend who is interested in buying a share of an airplane at Netjets. His main concern is safety. For those of you that work there, would you put your family on a NJ plane in bad WX with a random NJ crew flying?

Any comments appreciated.

-Dave

From my understanding, in Frax, you still have a good chance of flying on a non-NJ, FO, FX, CS operated charter. The charter company used by Ebersol, for example, has operated for all the major Frax companies at some point and time. There is no real guarantee. Also, what about the age of some of the planes, vis a vis, no TCAS II or EGPWS, et al on the entire particular fleet? As an owner, I'd be a bit miffed if a charter shows up or a plane that didn't have "my" equipment/pilots on board.

 

[Dep676]

Flight hours in a log book don't mean that much! But I will certainly take a guy with 2500 (500 Multi and an ATP) over a CRJ or ERJ FO from San Juan college with 350 hours as my first officer. If the flying public only new about some of the crap that goes on with pilot hiring.

At least everyone at NETJETS has basic pilot qualifications

Well most people with 2500 (500multi and an ATP) as you put don't want to work for poverty wages. Oh wait a minute we still do at the fractionals too. We just start at the higher end of poverty instead at the low end.

I don't think I would hesitate putting my family on any of the bigger fractionals.

 

[LXJ31]

From my understanding, in Frax, you still have a good chance of flying on a non-NJ, FO, FX, CS operated charter. The charter company used by Ebersol, for example, has operated for all the major Frax companies at some point and time. There is no real guarantee.

Well, I can't speak for the other companies (though I am sure they have their own policies), but at Flexjet the owners contracts ARE guaranteed to have a charter rate of less than 5% for the total hours flown. I'm not saying it never happens, but it is kept to an absolute minimum per contractual obligations. Aside from that, we lose money on charters, we have no motivation to charter a trip except as a last resort. The charter companies we do use are a handful of select charter outfits that have been audited for safety and reliability, usually through
SkyJet. The owners don't like it, and we don't want to do it.

 

[Hawk Driver]

From my understanding, in Frax, you still have a good chance of flying on a non-NJ, FO, FX, CS operated charter. The charter company used by Ebersol, for example, has operated for all the major Frax companies at some point and time. There is no real guarantee.

NJA owners can write in their contracts that they WILL NOT accept anything but a QS plane.

HD

 

[miles otoole]

NJA owners can write in their contracts that they WILL NOT accept anything but a QS plane.

HD

Which owners? The one's who specifically ask for it? What if all owners ask for it?
I guess what I am trying to understand is how the model can work without charter?

 

[Hawk Driver]

Which owners? The one's who specifically ask for it? What if all owners ask for it?
I guess what I am trying to understand is how the model can work without charter?

Any owner can request it. If all the owners ask for it they will be delayed in leaving and will probably not get the airplane of choice. I don't know but I would assume some sort of credit would be issued to the owner if they didn't get their type of plane if it is a downgrade.

HD

 

[FL450]

I have a friend who is interested in buying a share of an airplane at Netjets. His main concern is safety. For those of you that work there, would you put your family on a NJ plane in bad WX with a random NJ crew flying?

Any comments appreciated.

-Dave

Yes. Have done it before. Would do it again.

 

[FracCapt]

Based on some of the replies in this thread...I would be hesitant to put my family on ANY fractional airplane...it seems some of the pilots egos are way larger than their skill set.

Of course, we all know these are the very vocal minority....or, at least, we hope...

 

[apache]

I hope I'm not the one with the big ego on this thread. I'm just reporting what I see, and I increasing amounts of bravado and arrogance without the skills and decision-making to back it up. Humbleness and class seem to be dying trait in this business. And no, I never thought I was arrogant and always treated my crewmembers the way I wished to be treated.

I think the edge in safety will go with the company that has the better system to dispatch, train, and maintain the aircraft. I don't see Flex and CS much, but I suspect that NJ and Flops are going in opposite directions, with the edge going to NJ. I would not get on any radomly selected charter operator, safety audit or not.

 

[stork]

Well I wouldn't fly anywhere I wouldn;t have my family fly and anytime I get the chance to ride in back of one of our planes as opposed to jumping on an airline I take the NJA flight....Never been scared by anyone other than myself in a long long time....No contract no push isn;t really the truth...even when we had a current contract we never pushed...PERIOD

Thats not to say that the PM's don't..they do...but as soon as you say you are not comfortable the trip is done...period

 

[NJAowner]

Charter

Any NJ owner has the option to decline a flight on a non-QS aircraft. You will be accommodated on a QS tail if you a flexible a few hours in your departure. I have only been offered a non-QS tail twice in 6+ years -- once on a PrivatAir Lear 60 and once on a Fortune 50 company corp jet managemed by EJM.

Fly safe.