NetJets and FlightSafety report profits for 2004

[FamilyGuy]

Family Guy are we getting to you? Why are so scared to tell us your real job? You don't have the guts to even tell us what you do. So, why would we even begin to listen to you?

LOL....actually, I think I'm getting to you.....why else would you devote so much time with the personal attacks?

Start dealing in facts and ideas and maybe you'll have more success....I'm still waiting for an intelligent response from you to the many questions I've posed....

 

[Some Dude]

If you don't tell us what you do then how can we respect your opinions? You have no facts just union busting 101 crap. Smell ya later.

 

[Diesel]

Rustyfan what in the world does that mean? I guess it was a dig of some sort but who knows.

 

[pilotyip]

Again this is a pilot board, it does not deal in reality.

 

[FAcFriend]

profit or no profit who cares. X amount is what the pilots cost. We fly the planes it's their job to figure out how to pay us.- diesel


There is validity to this argument and I know the casino guys dont want to hear it. But if customers dont want to afford to pay the fees associated with paying pilots and the pilots don't want to fly for the wages they get, then fractional as a business does not work.

I have said this before on this board and everyone laughed. Perhaps too many customers who are mariginally wealthy are trying to fly fractional - these people cant really afford it and the industry has to be reserved for the ultra rich. They need to go back to flying commercial.

Less marginally wealthy customers = Less pilots=more pay per pilot..
less support staff, and so on.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Hey I agree with this. But lets focus on one thing. Management Fees. Thats where pilot salaries come from. Looking at all the books is a waste of time.

When you have an airplane there are fixed costs.... one of those costs is the salaries of the crew.... This cost exists regardless of the financial performance of the company. If you want to crew 5 pilots per airplane... make sure the management fees adequately cover this cost. Simple.

 

[Hogprint]

I agree with the above two posts. If you have to ask, you can't afford.

What started out as a little plan for Mr. S to get some of his less wealthy friends down to FLA, now has turned into an 800 lb gorilla. Now that the genie is out of the bottle he can't contain him, much less reel him in.

The little shell game never accounted for the time/wear & tear and lower value that the big M brought to the table. Now the owners are getting concerned that there will be no return on their investment like the Wunder of Woodbridge had promised.

Instead of reselling planes, now we have to keep buying into new airframes so we can still claim we have the most modern up to date fleet. Not the 10k pigs we are seeing out on the road.

I have long thought we should limit the discount side of the aisle here. At least have a dedicated fleet for marquis.

 

[FAcFriend]

Less marginally wealthy customers = Less pilots=more pay per pilot..
less support staff, and so on.

Ok, so now that we agree that the pilots are correct and there is a flaw in the basic business plan-

We will have too many pilots and too many employees. I am not willing to resign because this business plan is too tight. You know how the saying goes- easier to get a job while you have a job-

The union will get much smaller- will it even be needed?
Droves of pilots are now out looking for jobs?

Lets see how many resign in the coming weeks- 5% turnover rate is nothing - until we are seeing 25% turnover rates noone will get excited.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I agree with the above two posts. If you have to ask, you can't afford.

What started out as a little plan for Mr. S to get some of his less wealthy friends down to FLA, now has turned into an 800 lb gorilla. Now that the genie is out of the bottle he can't contain him, much less reel him in.

The little shell game never accounted for the time/wear & tear and lower value that the big M brought to the table. Now the owners are getting concerned that there will be no return on their investment like the Wunder of Woodbridge had promised.

Instead of reselling planes, now we have to keep buying into new airframes so we can still claim we have the most modern up to date fleet. Not the 10k pigs we are seeing out on the road.

I have long thought we should limit the discount side of the aisle here. At least have a dedicated fleet for marquis.

IMO, NetJets is a luxury product and as such its potential market size is inherently limited. There is merit to FAcFriend's idea that the marginally wealthy segment may not be able to afford or justify the increased salaries that the pilots are seeking. If this is the case, then it will simply curb the growth of the program, thereby limiting it to the truely rich.

I dont think this indicates that there is a basic flaw in the business plan, just that it is limited in size. Dont forget that fractional has been around for 20 years now....it is a viable business model, it just may not be scalable to 10,000+ people.

As for Marquis, hours are still hours. They buy 25 hours at a time and use it the same as regular owners....there is no additional wear and tear than a regular owner's 25 hours. Where I think Marquis does cause problems is that they add to the pre-existing peaks and increase the likelyhood of demand exceeding supply.

As we all know, everyone and their brother wants to fly on the sunday after thanksgiving....If you sell a full share, then that owner is going to spread out his flying over the entire year, if you sell a half share then that owner has 400 hours to spread out over the year, but odds are that he will also want to fly on the same peak holiday periods as the full share owner...same as the 1/8th owner and the 1/16th owner....and same as the 1/32nd (marquis) owner....this is where we have problems... the new restrictions on marquis that were recently announced hopefully will help control that demand.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

profit or no profit who cares. X amount is what the pilots cost. We fly the planes it's their job to figure out how to pay us.

I see my raise go out the window in waste every day.

Pay us or close the doors.

Diesel, You're right on with this one.

It costs X amount to buy fuel for the planes, so they pay it. It costs X amount to run your maintenance department, so they pay it. Catering, taxes, ramp fees, etc. They pay them. They have to pay everything it takes to make the birds fly. Now, they're a business, so they'll negotiate the best price they can on everything. Even pilots. Good luck!

Now, just as a little joke, I must point out that none of us in the 91 world have to deal with this stuff. We have no union so if we want more money, we just ask (and we usually get it, sometimes not, but there's always another gig waiting around the corner if you play your cards right).

Ace