NetJets and FlightSafety report profits for 2004

[Fozzy]

And the reason you are responding to family guy is??.......

IGNORE HIM AND HE WILL GO AWAY.

Dont give them any more ammunition to play with.

How about Junior High name calling? (sorry I was not name calling in HS)

FamilyGuy....or maybe I should call you "hired gun" for the lawers from Cali, you are a TOOL!

 

[FamilyGuy]

23%-40% is a complete lie people. Family guy is making up these numbers! Why don't you show us all how someone is going to make a 40% raise on a proposal that isn't even TA'd yet. Come on I dare you!

As dispatcherNJA noted in another thread, the 23%-40% figures was posted on these boards by one of your fellow pilots, and no one even commented on it.

Funny how when a pilot says the numbers everyone accepts them, but the minute anyone else that is perceived as pro-company states those exact same numbers then it is pure heresy.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Please, brothers and sisters, ignore these individuals and they will go away, or simply post at the other website.


No need to get our panties in a bunch over some misinformed individuals simply trying to stir the pot.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I didn't think you could family guy. I don't read every post on this board like you do I guess, so I missed that one. I know you have the proposal handy. Why don't you look at the numbers and tell me where the 23-40% comes from. As long as you keep posting inflamatory anti-pilot messages there will always be people to refute your garbage. Look at the support you have generated so far! Outstanding, keep it up!

 

[hydrarkt]

NJE hasn't been growing off of your backs.

NJE growth has been funded by NetJets and Berkshire. .

Hmm.. seems like you stated a fact and then shot it down all in one post. Smart.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

Details, details...

As dispatcherNJA noted in another thread, the 23%-40% figures was posted on these boards by one of your fellow pilots, and no one even commented on it.

Funny how when a pilot says the numbers everyone accepts them, but the minute anyone else that is perceived as pro-company states those exact same numbers then it is pure heresy.

Not sure about heresy, but how about a little of accuracy?

1) I lost that post from a "fellow pilot" regarding the 23%-40% raises so I can't post a link, but what you DON'T include in your recollection of that post is that the 40% raises are connected to a 6-6 schedule, which is about 7% more duty days that a current 17 day schedule...If one works more they SHOULD be paid more, no?

Suddenly that 40% becomes 33% comparing "apples-to-apples."

2) Combined that with a discussion of REAL Dollars:

QUOTE=FamilyGuy]My understanding is that the current proposal has raises ranging from 23% to 40%, depending on seniority and position, with the larger number going to the new hires. If 23% is the minimum raise, then I think that meets the definition of 'sizable'.

I won't get into an exchange with you as to whether the 23-40% raise figure is really accurate, but I can be confident that the cost of living ALONE has eaten up just over 18% of any additional money since 1998...

http://www.aier.org/cgi-aier/colcalculator.cgi

So what you're really talking about, if your figures are accurate, are 5-22% raises in real (2005) dollars.

Question:
Are the proposed raises indexed? Nope? Then that guy who will be a 5 year Captain 3 years from now will be looking at probably a -3% (decrease) to a +14% (increase) in Real Wages in 2008...

Is that same guy going to have to work more days for that raise? How about working any more hours in a day?

What about the status of his benefit package?


The devil is often in the details--could be a reason the netjets pilots aren't too excited about that latest proposal!

3) What you end up with is a possible -10% (decrease) in Real Wages (Standard of Living) to a potential, for New Hires, of a +7% (increase) in the standard of living...

Can you see why existing Netjet guys may not have been too excited about that proposal?

What about the other details?

This may come down to how one is defining the word "raise."

Is an increase in dollars paid considered a "raise" simply because it's more that what was previously paid, irregardless of inflation and additional time put into the earning of those additional dollars,
OR
Is a "raise" a sufficient amount of new dollars paid to actually increase one's Standard of Living, which would take into effect inflation and any addional time on the job and away from home, family, friends, etc?

I suspect that FamilyGuy and Dispatcher would claim the former, while what I've been reading would support that most Netjets pilots would support the latter--getting some figure bringing up their Standard of Living, closer to what NBAA guys get/live.

 

[Hogprint]

Hmm.. seems like you stated a fact and then shot it down all in one post. Smart.

Yeah, it's like my ol' grandma used to say....

You tell one lie, you got to tell five more to cover up the first.

 

[pilotyip]

Brotherhood?

Ah! "brother and sisters" the standard battle cry of the solidarity. Having been a member of the bortherhood a couple times, there is no brotherhood or sisterhood when the place folds (not saying NJ will fold) and you are on the street, no job placement, no training funds, no nothing except dues out of your last check. An example of the brother hood, under the de-reg act of 1978, if an airline failed the jobs would flow with the airframe, i.e. EAL goes out of business and XYZ picks up a 757, the EAL pilots should go to XYZ. Except the brothers at XYZ said "No way, I got mine, that is your problem". So much for the brotherhood, only relating my experiences.

 

[hydrarkt]

Then why don't we all just work for free???

 

[pilotyip]

Free?

That is against the law I think, you have to paid at least $5.75/hr