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HueyPilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 207
Bombers from T-1s, etc.
They had just moved the bombers from T-1s to T-38s as I started UPT. And there were lots of rumors of bringing bombers back to T-1s, or at least putting the B-52 in the T-1 drop. So when track select came along, I had a choice to make. I knew I could get a T-38 slot. But my wife didn't like any of the bomber locales, and from the class drops I had been to, the A-10s were few and far between. And I really liked the C-130. So I went T-1s, got a C-21 with a Tactical Airlift follow-on, and I'm having a great time flying a fun airframe, seeing lots of things, and I'll get that Herk one way or another.
In a previous post I had warned about the dangers of "gaming the system". What that means is putting something else ahead of your desired track thinking that you will either get your 2nd or 3rd choice, or that you put something else at the top because you feel you aren't up to the task of working for your goal.
If you want to fly F-15s, then go T-38s. Period.
What I did might be construed as "gaming the system", but that's not it at all. When I went to UPT, I was already a rated Army helicopter pilot, and I had a very open mind on what I wanted to fly....A-10, bombers, or Herks. That being said, my decision was made based on a couple of factors...I knew that I'd be happy flying any of those airframes. I knew that my wife didn't like Abilene TX, Rapid City SD, Minot ND, or Barksdale LA. I knew that statistically speaking, an A-10 would have been hard to come by. It's a matter of class dates aligning. And as luck would have it, we had a guy in my class who really wanted an A-10, and did pretty well, but got an F-16...an airframe I didn't want to fly. I feel, in my heart, that if I had gone T-38s, that would have been me.
Next was the Herk. I love the Herk, I've always wanted to fly one since I grew up near Ft. Bragg/Pope AFB, and loved watching them fly by. Even though it's big, slow and noisy, it's got a cool mission for a "heavy". Low-level. Gunship. Spec Ops. You can do it all.
So, don't confuse my decision-making process with what you should do. If you really, really want an F-15, then by all means go for it. However, be prepared (mentally) to fly anything. That includes an AWACS.
At my drop night, I had put C-21 with a Tac Airlift follow-on first, but had accepted in my head to fly anything, including the infamous AWACS or RJ. I knew I probably wouldn't get the AWACS, I had done pretty good in school, but it wasn't out of the question that I might not get that C-21/TAC assignment and could be flying Fred or a C-17 instead. I was at peace with that.
The only thing I didn't want was the FAIP, because my wife would have killed me being stuck in Del Rio for another 3 years.
Now, I'm NOT trying to convince you to fly anything other than a F-15. But I saw my classmates that were deadset on flying a particular type of airplane, and when they didn't get it, they were very upset.
If you go AD (active-duty), be mentally prepared that you COULD end up flying a KC-135, or something else (even a helicopter). My former casual-status roommate was "F-16 or bust", and told me if he got helos, he'd try to get out of the USAF as soon as he could. I didn't like that attitude. Being a former helo pilot myself, I can tell you that flying helicopters was more fun than flying anything else I've flown (including the Tweet) to date.
My moral....everything has it's own silver lining. KC-135s are good performers, have total glass. KC-10s you get a DC-10 type rating. Herks have a cool airdrop mission. C-17s you get a little bit of the best of both worlds, and a new airplane that's the center of AMC's attention. F-15s you fly the world's premier air superiority fighter. F-16s you get to do a bit of everything. A-10s have a very diverse attack mission and are highly maneuverable and probably the best "stick-n-rudder" airplane in the USAF. Bombers you stay home alot and still get to blow things up.
Bottom line...remember that flying ANYTHING in the USAF is better than flying nothing. Even that AWACS driver has a better job than the Transportation officer who's directing the cleaning of buses everyday.
Also, if you lighten up, and stop stressing about getting "THE" airplane, you'll do better. Those guys who were on pins and needles about getting their favorite airframe...most of them didn't get their choice. The guy who got the F-15C in our class was laid back and didn't care too much what he got. I obviously didn't care a whole lot, and got my top choice. Both of us got DG of our class too. And for both of us....getting DG and getting our top choice was almost a total suprise to both of us.
Good luck and I hope you do well.
They had just moved the bombers from T-1s to T-38s as I started UPT. And there were lots of rumors of bringing bombers back to T-1s, or at least putting the B-52 in the T-1 drop. So when track select came along, I had a choice to make. I knew I could get a T-38 slot. But my wife didn't like any of the bomber locales, and from the class drops I had been to, the A-10s were few and far between. And I really liked the C-130. So I went T-1s, got a C-21 with a Tactical Airlift follow-on, and I'm having a great time flying a fun airframe, seeing lots of things, and I'll get that Herk one way or another.
In a previous post I had warned about the dangers of "gaming the system". What that means is putting something else ahead of your desired track thinking that you will either get your 2nd or 3rd choice, or that you put something else at the top because you feel you aren't up to the task of working for your goal.
If you want to fly F-15s, then go T-38s. Period.
What I did might be construed as "gaming the system", but that's not it at all. When I went to UPT, I was already a rated Army helicopter pilot, and I had a very open mind on what I wanted to fly....A-10, bombers, or Herks. That being said, my decision was made based on a couple of factors...I knew that I'd be happy flying any of those airframes. I knew that my wife didn't like Abilene TX, Rapid City SD, Minot ND, or Barksdale LA. I knew that statistically speaking, an A-10 would have been hard to come by. It's a matter of class dates aligning. And as luck would have it, we had a guy in my class who really wanted an A-10, and did pretty well, but got an F-16...an airframe I didn't want to fly. I feel, in my heart, that if I had gone T-38s, that would have been me.
Next was the Herk. I love the Herk, I've always wanted to fly one since I grew up near Ft. Bragg/Pope AFB, and loved watching them fly by. Even though it's big, slow and noisy, it's got a cool mission for a "heavy". Low-level. Gunship. Spec Ops. You can do it all.
So, don't confuse my decision-making process with what you should do. If you really, really want an F-15, then by all means go for it. However, be prepared (mentally) to fly anything. That includes an AWACS.
At my drop night, I had put C-21 with a Tac Airlift follow-on first, but had accepted in my head to fly anything, including the infamous AWACS or RJ. I knew I probably wouldn't get the AWACS, I had done pretty good in school, but it wasn't out of the question that I might not get that C-21/TAC assignment and could be flying Fred or a C-17 instead. I was at peace with that.
The only thing I didn't want was the FAIP, because my wife would have killed me being stuck in Del Rio for another 3 years.
Now, I'm NOT trying to convince you to fly anything other than a F-15. But I saw my classmates that were deadset on flying a particular type of airplane, and when they didn't get it, they were very upset.
If you go AD (active-duty), be mentally prepared that you COULD end up flying a KC-135, or something else (even a helicopter). My former casual-status roommate was "F-16 or bust", and told me if he got helos, he'd try to get out of the USAF as soon as he could. I didn't like that attitude. Being a former helo pilot myself, I can tell you that flying helicopters was more fun than flying anything else I've flown (including the Tweet) to date.
My moral....everything has it's own silver lining. KC-135s are good performers, have total glass. KC-10s you get a DC-10 type rating. Herks have a cool airdrop mission. C-17s you get a little bit of the best of both worlds, and a new airplane that's the center of AMC's attention. F-15s you fly the world's premier air superiority fighter. F-16s you get to do a bit of everything. A-10s have a very diverse attack mission and are highly maneuverable and probably the best "stick-n-rudder" airplane in the USAF. Bombers you stay home alot and still get to blow things up.
Bottom line...remember that flying ANYTHING in the USAF is better than flying nothing. Even that AWACS driver has a better job than the Transportation officer who's directing the cleaning of buses everyday.
Also, if you lighten up, and stop stressing about getting "THE" airplane, you'll do better. Those guys who were on pins and needles about getting their favorite airframe...most of them didn't get their choice. The guy who got the F-15C in our class was laid back and didn't care too much what he got. I obviously didn't care a whole lot, and got my top choice. Both of us got DG of our class too. And for both of us....getting DG and getting our top choice was almost a total suprise to both of us.
Good luck and I hope you do well.
HueyPilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 207
Not an IP, but I'll try
At Laughlin, each IP carried about 2-3 students as "assigned students". The IP was responsible for caring for the student's grade book, etc.
In Tweets, I flew with my assigned IP about 30% of the time. My assigned IP was known as a "hammer"...she had the shortest temper of all our IPs. Each IP generally will fly with every student in the class at least once. I flew with every IP in my flight, and I flew with a few "guest IPs" as well.
At Laughlin, each IP carried about 2-3 students as "assigned students". The IP was responsible for caring for the student's grade book, etc.
In Tweets, I flew with my assigned IP about 30% of the time. My assigned IP was known as a "hammer"...she had the shortest temper of all our IPs. Each IP generally will fly with every student in the class at least once. I flew with every IP in my flight, and I flew with a few "guest IPs" as well.
Tweetdrvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2003
- Posts
- 133
We cycle thru the students
Gator,
Each IP typically has 2 or 3 students. We are responsible for making sure things are going ok with your training. There are usually 12-15 students in a flight room, and 6-7 permanent assigned IPs including the flight commander.
In the 15 rides prior to solo, we try to only fly each student with a max of 3 Instructors. This is not hard and fast, but a very honest attempt. We also try to fly you 3 to 4 times in a row with the same IP, so that we can see your mistakes, help you work thru them, and offer techniques. Then we pass you on to another IP so that you don't get warped by each individual IP's personal pet peeves.
After solo, you will probably dump one of 3 IPs you've flown with, then pick up someone new for 3 of the next 6 rides that lead you to mid-phase. After mid-phase check, you dump another of those pre-solo IPs and pick up a new one for the next 11 rides (4 of which are solo) until your final contact check.
This rotation will continue for the 7 rides for Instruments, and the 15 rides for formation. Seven Nav rides are usually flown in one weekend cross country with the same IP. If you break, get weather stuck or incomplete somehow, then you may fly some of these rides with another IP or the same one who you tried to go cross country with in the first place.
Your sims are a different animal, because the sim instructors are all contract civilians (mostly retired ex IPs) and you may sim with a dude who flys as a reservist and works sims for a civilian job.
All told there are 68 total jets in the Laughlin/Columbus syllabus, Vance may be a bit different because of the Joint-Navy SUPT stuff; and 3 Basic sims, 3 EP sims, 14 Instrument Sims.
In most every phase, you probably see a 3 or 4 ride string with your assigned IP, and by the end of training, you will have flown with all 6-7 of the permanent IPs in the flight room and 4 of the guest help IPs.
Study, chairfly, and good luck!
HueyPilot,
The drops and assigment process have changed slightly. FAIPs and C-21 assignments no longer receive follow-on assignments. So the T-1 grads are in play for any big jet. I am not sure if a 38 FAIP, or if a 37/6 FAIP from the 38 track gets a generic fighter follow-on or bomber follow-on or if they are just praying the whole time as a FAIP to get what they want.
Right now, all bombers are coming from the 38 track. There may still be a few T-1 FAIPs with bomber follow-ons from the time when B-52/B-1s came from the T-1 track. If there are any left, then they get to go through that mini-38 course for a few contact rides and the formation low levels at 360KT GS.
The rumors keep flying about returning some, none or all of the bombers to the T-1 and then those nasty remote controlled things keep rearing their ugly heads also. Anything they do in this department is usually done to reduce the 38 student load and preserve the life of the jet, or reduce student load to ease the burden while AETC transitions to the 38C models.
Gator,
Each IP typically has 2 or 3 students. We are responsible for making sure things are going ok with your training. There are usually 12-15 students in a flight room, and 6-7 permanent assigned IPs including the flight commander.
In the 15 rides prior to solo, we try to only fly each student with a max of 3 Instructors. This is not hard and fast, but a very honest attempt. We also try to fly you 3 to 4 times in a row with the same IP, so that we can see your mistakes, help you work thru them, and offer techniques. Then we pass you on to another IP so that you don't get warped by each individual IP's personal pet peeves.
After solo, you will probably dump one of 3 IPs you've flown with, then pick up someone new for 3 of the next 6 rides that lead you to mid-phase. After mid-phase check, you dump another of those pre-solo IPs and pick up a new one for the next 11 rides (4 of which are solo) until your final contact check.
This rotation will continue for the 7 rides for Instruments, and the 15 rides for formation. Seven Nav rides are usually flown in one weekend cross country with the same IP. If you break, get weather stuck or incomplete somehow, then you may fly some of these rides with another IP or the same one who you tried to go cross country with in the first place.
Your sims are a different animal, because the sim instructors are all contract civilians (mostly retired ex IPs) and you may sim with a dude who flys as a reservist and works sims for a civilian job.
All told there are 68 total jets in the Laughlin/Columbus syllabus, Vance may be a bit different because of the Joint-Navy SUPT stuff; and 3 Basic sims, 3 EP sims, 14 Instrument Sims.
In most every phase, you probably see a 3 or 4 ride string with your assigned IP, and by the end of training, you will have flown with all 6-7 of the permanent IPs in the flight room and 4 of the guest help IPs.
Study, chairfly, and good luck!
HueyPilot,
The drops and assigment process have changed slightly. FAIPs and C-21 assignments no longer receive follow-on assignments. So the T-1 grads are in play for any big jet. I am not sure if a 38 FAIP, or if a 37/6 FAIP from the 38 track gets a generic fighter follow-on or bomber follow-on or if they are just praying the whole time as a FAIP to get what they want.
Right now, all bombers are coming from the 38 track. There may still be a few T-1 FAIPs with bomber follow-ons from the time when B-52/B-1s came from the T-1 track. If there are any left, then they get to go through that mini-38 course for a few contact rides and the formation low levels at 360KT GS.
The rumors keep flying about returning some, none or all of the bombers to the T-1 and then those nasty remote controlled things keep rearing their ugly heads also. Anything they do in this department is usually done to reduce the 38 student load and preserve the life of the jet, or reduce student load to ease the burden while AETC transitions to the 38C models.
AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
Twt driver and Huey pilot,
Some of the very best gouge and philosophy I've seen doled out wannabes in a long time....keep up the good work.
As for the "gotta fly the XXX" types, one of my table mates said he wanted "an F16 or nothin'!". Well...he got one of his first two choices....he was gone pre-solo in tweets. I've also seen more than a few ex-Helo guys do VERY well, including a classmate of mine who got an Eagle out of UPT and later flew the U-2 and the F16 as well.
Wannabes...if you haven't figured it out yet...WINGs are the goal in UPT...the rest takes care of itself.
Some of the very best gouge and philosophy I've seen doled out wannabes in a long time....keep up the good work.
As for the "gotta fly the XXX" types, one of my table mates said he wanted "an F16 or nothin'!". Well...he got one of his first two choices....he was gone pre-solo in tweets. I've also seen more than a few ex-Helo guys do VERY well, including a classmate of mine who got an Eagle out of UPT and later flew the U-2 and the F16 as well.
Wannabes...if you haven't figured it out yet...WINGs are the goal in UPT...the rest takes care of itself.
Tweetdrvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2003
- Posts
- 133
HueyPilot,
Dude, I agree with Albie, you dispense great advice. Send me a PM with your DLF Flt and class number, I gotta know who "hammer" is or was. I got suspicions, but I gotta know.
When you get out of Herks, you should consider coming back to the T-6/T-37 world. CBM and Vance are a bit nicer than DLF, and students would benefit greatly from your wisdom.
Dude, I agree with Albie, you dispense great advice. Send me a PM with your DLF Flt and class number, I gotta know who "hammer" is or was. I got suspicions, but I gotta know.
When you get out of Herks, you should consider coming back to the T-6/T-37 world. CBM and Vance are a bit nicer than DLF, and students would benefit greatly from your wisdom.
talondriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2002
- Posts
- 330
Back to "gaming the system".
If you put down what you want and get it...bueno!
If you put down what you want and don't get it...at least you tried.
If you try and game the system and someone else ends up with the jet you could of had...you will always be one of those that grabs the nearest guy and says "I could of had a '38 or I could of had the C-17". Too bad and no one wants to hear it.
Don't make your life (and others) miserable. Put yourself in a position to select (fly good), select, and hope for the best.
If you put down what you want and get it...bueno!
If you put down what you want and don't get it...at least you tried.
If you try and game the system and someone else ends up with the jet you could of had...you will always be one of those that grabs the nearest guy and says "I could of had a '38 or I could of had the C-17". Too bad and no one wants to hear it.
Don't make your life (and others) miserable. Put yourself in a position to select (fly good), select, and hope for the best.
talondriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2002
- Posts
- 330
Yahtzee
Season Ticket Holder
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2002
- Posts
- 301
talondriver said:Yahtz-
You're missing out on the dual runways ops...
TalonDriver,
How's that dual runway situation going by the way?
I'm waiting around my Altus class working nights up in the Command Post....AMC's a different world from AETC....not bad not good...just different. I'm in a good squadron here, but the C-17 has too much vis right now, and the 43rd is hard to beat as for as the people go. Maybe oneday, I'll be able to come back.
Hope things are going well for you at CBM. I plan to stop by and check out the "Mullett" (the new home of the 43rd T-1 guys) on my way to Altus. Maybe we can meet up for some grub.
Yahtz
P.S. How's Pat B. doing? I heard AFPC canxed his assignment to Randolph.
Sorry to hear that. Pat's a good dude and was even liked by the T-1 folks. 
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