Need Salary Info...Please help!

[airstang]

Hello everyone!

I am about to go into a salary negotiation for a corporate/charter PIC job and need to know what you folks are making!

The company I'm looking at is a good size outfit offering lots of 135 flying in newer small jets (Citations, Lears, and so on). I am looking at costs of living in Southern California. I might be flying multiple types as well.

Please let me know what your salary/compensation packages look like, so I can get an idea of what my target should be.

This company also might be looking for some office time, so what is that worth?

Please send whatever info you have to me at [email protected] or just post...whatever is easier for you! You will be helping me out tremendously!

Also, if anyone has any salary survey type data, that would be great too!

Thanks for your help!

 

[TaxiDriver]

From your profile, it looks as if this will be your first Part 135 gig. Also, if you will be flying Lears and Citations, training by FSI or Simuflite will be needed as well.

Salary: SIC: $35K, PIC $45K

Probably will have to sign a training contract.

Depending on the operation, 6 - 8 days off per month. If not, on call 24/7.

HMO Health coverage

Office work most likely it is part of your salary. If they give you an hourly rate, I have seen somewhere around $10 hr.

 

[cherokee]

$45k for PIC in any jet?? I would most certainly decline.

 

[johnpeace]

$45k for PIC in any jet?? I would most certainly decline.

Not if it were your first opportunity to fly a jet you wouldn't...

 

[cherokee]

Not if it were your first opportunity to fly a jet you wouldn't...

First of all this is not this guys first jet job. As you can see in this profile he has been flying the ERJ. Secondly, is there any price you wouldn't go below to fly your 'first jet'. How about if someone would fly PIC for $35k, how about $30k, $25k? I don't know what your aspirations are but if it is to be a pro pilot I would suspect you would be a little disenchanted if you finally got to the point where you are a captain on a corporate jet and think you may finally be able to make some money for you and your family after all the hard work and sacrifice, only to find that the employer will only pay $35 or $40k because someone else will do it for less. For me, $45k is a non-starter.

 

[johnpeace]

Sorry, good point. I typed before I saw his types and made assumptions.

I am aspiring to pro pilot and I would hope that being a jet captain would pay more than $45K.

First of all this is not this guys first jet job. As you can see in this profile he has been flying the ERJ. Secondly, is there any price you wouldn't go below to fly your 'first jet'. How about if someone would fly PIC for $35k, how about $30k, $25k? I don't know what your aspirations are but if it is to be a pro pilot I would suspect you would be a little disenchanted if you finally got to the point where you are a captain on a corporate jet and think you may finally be able to make some money for you and your family after all the hard work and sacrifice, only to find that the employer will only pay $35 or $40k because someone else will do it for less. For me, $45k is a non-starter.

 

[FracCapt]

Sorry, good point. I typed before I saw his types and made assumptions.

I am aspiring to pro pilot and I would hope that being a jet captain would pay more than $45K.

So....what WOULD be an acceptable starting pay(as a minimum) for a first time jet PIC?

If somebody offered me $45k to be a jet PIC(especially in California, where fast food managers make nearly that much), I would walk away as soon as I had stopped laughing enough to be able to stand. I know somebody would do it, which is one of the problems with our industry. When somebody with low time decides it's OK to accept $30k to be a jet PIC because it's their first jet, they hurt all of us.

 

[johnpeace]

I know somebody would do it, which is one of the problems with our industry. When somebody with low time decides it's OK to accept $30k to be a jet PIC because it's their first jet, they hurt all of us.

...but someone would do it.

It's a vicious circle.

Pilots desperate (and there's a lot of desperation out there) to get turbine PIC time or to get typed or both are willing to take a job like this. For many of them it's a big upgrade from their present situation. By taking the job, they create more jobs like this one, but since no new jobs are being created all they're really doing is helping a good job turn into a crappy one.

What are we supposed to do?

I'm just praying that as I advance through my career the doors open up to allow me to work for a decent company for a long time.

 

[TaxiDriver]

I guess everyone thinks that a newly typed PIC in say a Lear 20/30 series or a Cessna 500, CJ series should be paid more than 45K??? So then, what do you think is an appropriate salary for this PIC and where he find an operator who will pay that?

 

[airstang]

Thanks so much... Any others?

I appreciate the input. I forgot that I haven't updated my profile in a while...

Here's my current deal... I left the airlines to get into the 135 world some time ago. I am currently flying 135 SIC on CE-500 series jets as well as PIC on CE-560XL jets.

The info I seek is to find out what I would be worth with types in CE-500, CE-560 as well as administrative work in a 135 company. The job includes supporting at least 3 airplanes as PIC, occasionally flying with "owner pilots." (meaning rated aircraft owners who operate as PIC, but I would be doing all the planning, preflight, postflight...)

So I hope that clears it up... Any further thoughts?

I am looking at possibly being offered salary only. Does $50-$60K for the flying sound realistic? How about extra for admin work?

Thanks for the good replies so far... I look forward to hearing more!

 

[Herman Bloom]

What are we supposed to do?

We are suppose to have legitimate backup plans so that we can turn down inapropriate offers like this one. You know, there is a growing trend in medicine: Doctors are starting to abandon the profession in droves because of all the hastles. That's because they are generally very smart and ambitious people who know they are capable of doing other things, usually even things that could earn them more cash.

Makes me wish there were more pilots like that.

 

[airstang]

I agree...

You are right. Taking a lowball offer takes us all down... I did it as a flight instructor. I did it at the Regional Airline Level. Now, I don't want to do it again. It's just like the airlines and air fares... If they'd all get the 'nads to charge the fares they need to, they'd stop going bankrupt. But their all so scared and try to all go cheap...

I am sick of cheap (unless we're talking about gas prices, then cheap is good!).

So help me out by giving me some "ammo" to take into the meeting... What's a guy like me worth?

Thanks for the reply... keep 'em coming!

 

[Jump Pilot]

"Secondly, is there any price you wouldn't go below to fly your 'first jet'"

Yep. Turned down low to mid-20's.

Admin work depends on the skill level. What do you bring to the table? Excel skills? Analysis skills? Presentation skills? Can you save the company money? If so, at least $25 per hour.

Reverse the whip on them. You hire the company instead of the company hiring you.

 

[airstang]

Admin duties...

I bring to the table all the skills you listed. I have a working knowledge with the company's 3rd party 135 pilot record tracking software as well. I am up on the regs and requirments and how to organize, assemble, and maintain training records. I also have a 4 year management degree with an emphasis on the areas I would be working with.

I am already in a position where "help out" with 135 files and records, so I also bring experience to the table...

Good question. I am glad you asked and it gave me the opportunity to see that I have been selling myself short.

Keep 'em coming... or email me at [email protected]

 

[Jump Pilot]

I believe it is human nature to sell ourselves short in terms of skill level, knowledge, and worth. Just look at the pilot salaries for confirmation.

 

[C601]

I had a similar position, except is was part 91, been responsible for only 1 jet, (Challenger 600), and they started me at $62K + benfits and bonus, over the years (5) the salary had increased to around 85K before we got a Challenger 601

Like AAflyer said in an posting not to long ago

We undercut ourselves and then wonder why we can't get more later.
We as pilots will be our own downfall.

 

[350DRIVER]

I am looking at possibly being offered salary only. Does $50-$60K for the flying sound realistic? How about extra for admin work?

This still seems extremely low, especially for the 135 markets out in California. I would say anything less than $62-$65K/year is probably unacceptable and is a no-go, atleast in my opinion. You can get the averages from NBAA as well as salary comparison sites where you can see what low/high and region averages are.

If it were me, I would call the numerous 135 departments in your area/region and tell them something along the lines of that you recently got hired in the same equipment in Florida and you were just "curious" as to what they start their captains out at? This way you can get a better idea of what you are worth there.......


good luck,

3 5 0

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FLying PIC on THREE jets and doing "owner-pilot" type flying, plus admin duties??


for 60K in SOCAL??

FUUUUCK THAT!!

Ever done the "owner-pilot" thing in a jet before? Its as bad as it gets, not worth ANY money in my opinion....


You are already a jet pic, you will find much better than this.