Need help with Airtran vs Midwest list

[Captainjerky]

Anyone out there care to help my research a bit? We here at Skyway (Midwest Connect) are getting memos of almost daily consistency telling us that we basically cost the airline too much, and that it's our fault the airline isn't doing better now. The latest round of memos specifically targets the pilots of both Skyway and Midwest, as well as all the FA's, as prime sources of money that the company needs and can't live without. To this end, the wizards that study the bird entrails at management have devised a cost comparison chart between Midwest and Airtran, listing things like cost per seat/mile and such. Airtran was listed with a 2002 labor cost of 2.46¢ per ASM compared with Midwest's claimed 3.79¢ (excluding maintenance). They did not, however, bother to say WHICH labor groups cost the most. I have a really old Midwest pay scale I'm trying to find, but the guys have taken something like 7 more percent off that also. In addition, it doesn't pay to compare their regional service, because Skyway doesn't compare with Air Willy in any way. I was hoping someone who knows Airtran's pay scale could give me a few representative salaries for CA and FO so I can line them up with Midwest. I would be willing to bet that Airtran makes more. The reason I am asking this is so I can prove to myself and others that management's claims that 'we' are the problem is simply NOT SO. If they want to hold Airtran up as a model, I think they should do so, because they are sure doing a lot better than we are right now! Shameful and blatant imitation is something I could live with if it meant I got to stay flying for a living.

Replies on- or off-digest are welcome, and I will of course share my findings with anyone interested if I make any progress.

Thanks,
Ryan
(full pay to the last day- our entire pay scale is ALREADY a concession)

 

[FLB717]

Yeah Contact your MEC and have them get our Reps to give you the info from our CBA. I doubt that we are sooooo much more underpaid that you. PM me it you need to.

 

[Ty Webb]

When I interviewed at Midex in Feb 2001, Steve S. made a couple of very snide remarks about AirTran during the interview! I remember it, because I had jumpseated to ATL on AirTran to get to the interview, and I thought it was very rude and unprofessional to say that. How bizarre that they are now holding AirTran's numbers up to you.

Anyway, if you do a search here on this board, you will find our pilot pay. Basically, FO pay is around $39./hr to start, then $56. second year and the Capt pay is $102. for a 3rd year skipper, topping out around $160. per hour after 12 years. Guarantee is 70 hrs, average line pays 84.5 hrs, duty rig, trip rig, etc . .. . company retirement contribution is 10.5% of your salary into a "B" fund. More pay for bigger aircraft when they show up.

FWIW- Management here said they approached Midex about you doing a code share out of MKE which would have probably been mutually beneficial, but according to our management, Midex turned them down cold. Sounds like the blame should rest with management, not with the pay of your crews.

Good luck to all.

 

[mad691]

I think Midwest is not telling you guys the whole story here. First of all I want to say that you guys are a first class airline. I think you guys are by far the best customer service airline in the business. No one can hold a candle to that!!

They say that labor costs are only part of the problem(in my opinion labor is not the problem). It seems other parts of the operation need to be fixed. Something your LEC should be looking into.

First of all comparing Airtran to Midwest is not a very good idea. Totally two different business plans. one is a low cost airline the other is not. If you look at there pay scales I would bet they are about the same. You guys fly MD-80s and Airtran does not. So I assume MD80s probably pay a little more. Trip rigs, duty rigs are about the same. B fund is about the same. So really I don't know what Midwest is trying to say to you guys but the BS flag should be flying high.


The second thing you guys should be looking into is the operation of the airline. How many hours does your equipment fly? Airtran flys there airplanes over 11 hour a day. How many hours a day does Midwest fly there equipment? How many hours a day does Midwest fly there pilots? Duty rigs and trip rigs should force the company to build lines that are efficient and cost productive for them. I saw an article last year(can't remember where but it was interesting) about pilots productivity. It said that SWA was the best and UAL was the worst. SWA pilots flew an average(including reserves) of 61 hours a month. Airtan came in second with 53 hours a month. Third was Frontier. Ual was the worst with 36 hours a month flying for the pilots. Not very productive. AMR had 39 hours and Delta had 43 hours. These all included reserves. Some has to with the fact of the hub and spoke system and other fact is point to point. As you can see Point to point is much more productive than the hub and spoke. Its things like that that can save the company a ton of money.

If I read the press releases correctly the are redoing there aircraft payments. Good idea. They are paying twice as much on those airplanes as they are worth. they actually hold the cards on this one. Nobody wants DC9s,MD80s,B1900and 328 jet anymore. So lease company has a choice, either you lower payments or you take the airplane back. And you know what I guarantee you if they don't accept those planes they will go to the desert and the lease company won't make anything at all.


Sorry to ramble on like that. I'm just trying to make a point that labor is NOT the problem. Its how they are running the business. These were only a few things, I can go on for ever but I don't want to bore you. Midwests problem is the business NOT labor.