NBC Nightly News "Low Cost Airlines"

[jarhead]

But what if the "public" refuses to pay more? It's not as if an airline is a government, that has taxing authority. The "public" has a choice. They are not compelled to fly, and if ticket prices are too high, they will reduce their frequency of flying, or abandon it all together.

 

[AftCG182]

It's so simple. The compelling reason for us, the public, to expect more and pay less is because we're finally realizing that flying isn't a privilidge of the affluent.

A Private certificate and a little ambition will get a person where they need to be. An Instrument rating will only supplement that.

HOWEVER, it's more convienient and cost-effective to take the Commercial carriers.

I'm going to predict that it's gonna be a while before everyone gives up the convenience of an internet-priced ticket for a pilot's certificate and the responsibility that comes with it.

 

[jarhead]

You could have sat on your glasses in the airplane too

 

[AftCG182]

Well, Ok........ since I'm gonna be hauling skydivers for the near-term future, what is going to happen with the RJ's?

Yeah, I realize that they're fuel-efficient, blah-blah-blah..........

How is that going to effect hiring, attrition, and all of the other stuff that affects the dynamics that keep me sane (with all the $ thay I've spent on ratings, my degree, etc)

 

[MoMiller]

Wrong. Neelman came to SWA with Morris Air in 1994. He never "headed" Southwest.

JetBlue founder and CEO, David Neelman has a simple
long term success formula: Give the customer more
than they expect, and do it at an affordable price.

He started small with a regional air carrier in Salt
Lake City called Morris Air. He built that business by
offering customers convenience, efficiency, and
low air rates.

Morris Air was so successful, that rival Southwest
Airlines bought them just to keep market share.
Southwest even made Neelman sign a 5 year
agreement that he would not begin another
airline to compete against Southwest.

Southwest still keeps Neelman's business practices in effect to this day.

Thanks for correcting me on that technicality

 

[superrav]

the public doesnt understand how important the aviation industry is...if you look at ticket fares in the past 20 years..how much have they really changed?

 

[jarhead]

Oh, they've changed a LOT over the past 20 years. A ticket in 1984 was way more than now, and that was in 1984 dollars. Tickets cost a whole bunch less now than in yester year. Trust me on that one, I was flying a lot on business trips back then, and the choice to fly out to an account, had the airfare being a major part of the budget for travel. Now car rental, meals and hotels are the biggest bite of business travel costs

 

[blzr]

My guess is that Neelman and Jet Blue have thought about the 20 year capt thing. More than likely, they are putting away for the future. I doubt they are like U.S. Air and can't plan beyond the next pushback.

I believe Siegel made 600k last year, plus bonuses. His stock ain't doin' so hot though. I personally don't believe that labor should have to shoulder all the pay cuts. Get the Big CEO's and management to pony up.

If we flew airplanes like most of them run a company, there would be alot more Smokin' holes out there.

 

[jobear]

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/industry/news/latestnews/*http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/040304/53719.html

JetBlue Airways Corporation (NasdaqNM:JBLU - News) today announced that the Securities and Exchange Commission has declared effective its universal shelf registration statement on Form S-3, filed in connection with the offer and sale, from time to time on a delayed basis, of up to $750,000,000 aggregate amount of its common stock, preferred stock, debt securities and/or pass through certificates. These securities, which may be offered in one or more offerings and in any combination, will in each case be offered pursuant to a separate prospectus supplement issued at the time of the particular offering that will describe the specific types, amounts, prices and terms of the offered securities. Unless otherwise described in the applicable prospectus supplement relating to the offered securities, the Company anticipates using the net proceeds of each offering to fund working capital and capital expenditures, including capital expenditures related to the purchase of aircraft and construction of facilities on or near airports.

That my friends is a whole lotta money, is there trouble ahead for the BLUE?

Bear

 

[Publishers]

problem

Some are making the assumption on what pay will be down stream and the public being willing to pay it.

It sould be obvious that they are not willing to continue to pay the fares that can pay large salaries.

a medium level pay will be the result.

 

[Tug Driver]

Oh, they've changed a LOT over the past 20 years. A ticket in 1984 was way more than now, and that was in 1984 dollars. Tickets cost a whole bunch less now than in yester year. Trust me on that one, I was flying a lot on business trips back then, and the choice to fly out to an account, had the airfare being a major part of the budget for travel. Now car rental, meals and hotels are the biggest bite of business travel costs

good point...

so if a gallon of gas was $0.65 in the '80s and an airline ticket was lets say on average $350.00 ..... todays fares should be around $700 on the low side.

Business people will/do pay this....but the "spring breakers" will not.

 

[jarhead]

Tug Driver

You have a good point there. I guess everything is relative. You reinforce my point, that tickets today ARE way less costly today than 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, a person making around $25,000 a year, would be the equivalent of around $70,000 a year today That ticket you mention that was $350 twenty years ago, is usually less than that right now, and in 2004 dollars, for the savvy consumer.

There are boundaries for the price of air travel, and it is not just competition among the various carriers. At some point there is an equilibrium, or sway point, when the price of a ticket will discourage air travel, and traffic then declines. When the traffic declines enough, capacity is reduced. That’s when airplanes are parked or sold to some foreign carrier, and pilots, f/a’s CSA, managers, and all other employees start getting pink slips, and are seeking other lines of work.

 

[climbhappy]

jarhead

quote: there are boundaries for the price of air travel......etc.

the problem is two tiers of pricing and yet the public doesn't differentiate between the level of quality. I have read all day long on this board an argument put forth by pilots who consider themselves in the know. they trash southwest as a cattle car.

two weeks ago in ATL, i witnessed two different settings of an irate father with his family getting bumped off confirmed flights with boarding passes in hand. airtran apparently loves to overbook their flights at least to MCO by 15 or 20. looked like a big mess to me. Is it isolated? sure! does everyone else have the same problem? yes!

So we could say that to the public most airlines are the same. that's why the balance sheets of SW,At and JB look far better than the majors. Jetblue will have to prove they can carve out market share on the east coast against stiff competition.

 

[73belair]

Its not just Airtran that over books flights. ALL carriers will do that. Its all based on a 15-20% no show factor, and usually it works.
Now as far as people getting "better" service on the majors as opposed to LCC... I've been flying Delta for the past 2 years pretty regular. In those short 2 years I've seen the things that people would pay extra for go away. i.e. meals/snaks, more room in the cabin, etc. Not sayin all of theflights are like this, but from DFW to ATL that is the case. Now I'm all about supporting Delta, but if I were the general public I don't seen why I would pay at least $200 more for the same "service". I HATE Southwest's no seat assignment thing and won't fly them because of that. But Airtran I have no problem with.