Navy ground officer needs help/advice

[duksrule]

I just recently found this site and I must say it is very nice.

About me: I have been active duty Navy for 15 years. Nine years Enlisted and the last six as a 1520 ( Aerospace Maintenance Officer ) I have an A.S. in Aviation Maintenance and a B.S. in Aeronautical Science. I was originally commissioned to be a pilot but got the NAMI Wammy for my eyes while I was in OCS. Well I have since had PRK done by the Navy and I am 20/15 in both eyes. I know there is a waiver for this and I could probably get one but the other issue is that now I am 32 years old and will be 33 in October. Are there any waivers for age? I had heard once that you can waive X years for prior enlisted service. Also what are the requirements for age or age waivers for other services? I would easily consider an inter-service transfer to get the chance to fly.

I am wondering if there is any way to get into the cockpit in any of the services or should I just finish my 20, retire and look for a flight school to get the training. Being a pilot has always been a dream and I was close to leaving the service back when I first got disqualified for being a pilot. I had to stay though since I already had so much time invested. If I were to retire and then go for flight training and a job at least I would have $40K a year coming in from retirement income so getting a high dollar job wouldn't be the number one priority over getting good flying experience.

So the questions are.
1. Does anyone know how I can get into the flying program of any of the services?
2. What is the best track for after retirement? One of the academies or go through the steps individually.
3. I have used all of my GI bill, will the VA pay for flight training?
4. I will be 37 when I retire. Is this to old to start from scratch?
Thanks
Rob

 

[skiddriver]

Rob,

Retired USMC (semper fi) will try and answer some of your questions.

1) The best person to ask is an officer recruiter for your target service (speak separately to Guard and Reserve recruiters) and check any current orders on USN transitions. If you do transition in the USN (not sure you can get that waiver), remember you're starting at the bottom at a reasonably advanced rank and will therefore probably not make it past 20 YOS. Only important if you want to continue to progress up the food chain.

2a) I had a USMCR Major who worked for me for a little while as the OIC of my maint det. He also got the NAMI whammy and ended up going MMCO. He continued his flying on his own dime (and using GI bill), got his ratings, instructed on weekends, flew night freight while the AMMCO for the F-18 FRS at Lemoore(!), got out, went into a regional, and got hired by a major airline as an FO. The point is that you don't have to wait to get your civilian flying career going. You need to be willing to make the investment in time and money, but it will be a lot easier to bear that burden if you start now rather than wait and do it all at once after retirement. The more hours you have logged, the better job you'll be able to get when you retire. It's that simple.

2b) Personally biased on the issue of staying in for 20, but my uninvited opinion is you're right on target. My retirement check plus my 1st year FO pay plus my wife's (criminally low) teacher's pay = 85K+. You will not regret finishing out your time in the military.

3) Once you've run through your GI Bill, Uncle Sam is finished helping out in your training endeavors. There are some states that have programs that will provide assistance (Texas for one), but each has their own rules. To use Texas' Hazelwood act, you have to enter from Texas, and retire to Texas. I say, don't wait hoping to find a good academy or state program 5 years from now. Pony up some bucks and spread the training out over your next few years. You'll have a better idea if you like flying (if you don't you can refocus on a different post-retirement job), it will take a smaller piece of your annual budget, and you'll have more hours in your logbook when you retire (important for landing that first job). You'll find that costs at a Part 91 school are usually less than those at a VA approved Part 141 school, so not having GI Bill backing may not be as big a deal as you would imagine. Part 91 FBO schools are easier to find and your tickets look the same after you're done. You may also be able to eventually work part-time there. Shop around and find a place that suits you.

4) Yes and no. You can only fly Part 121 airline stuff until you're 60. So starting at 37 cuts your useful commercial aviation life somewhat. Other types of flying don't have that age limit, but you need to ask yourself how long you really want to go to work each day? I'll refer back to answer # 3 and say that if you start from ground zero at 37 you're at a greater disadvantage than if you spend the next 5 years getting your tickets and logging flight time. I started at Comair last year at age 44. If you spend the next 5 years getting ready, you could get into a commercial cockpit in 5 years (hopefully when the industry is turning around) rather than spending several years and/or several 10k's of your retirement money getting qualed. I know that you've probably seen some folks from places like Comair Academy roll into a cockpit with some very low time. I had a couple in my training class and they were really sharp and did very well transitioning into the job at Comair (as well as I did anyway). However, I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Those programs may not be around in 5 years and in any case, they take over a year at the cost of many $10K's. So either start flying now, or start saving now.

Finally, you're doing the right thing thinking about it now. I spent 5 years getting ready for the transition, and got a lucky break with a C-12 slot the last few years I was in. So I was able to find a stable job in a very bad hiring market upon retirement (job offers from Comair and Piedmont, interview invites from ACA and NetJets). Be as ready as you can when you reach retirement. You won't regret it.

Good luck.

 

[Michael Knight]

Get your waiver paperwork in and stay Navy. I have seen several Navy flight students older than you. The oldest I recall was 38. I have met several others in their mid 30's. Most are prior-enlisted but the 38 yr/old was TWO ranks senior to you... I'd say anything is possible.

Good luck!

 

[duksrule]

Thanks for the advice guys. Jim it sounds like I will be in the same boat as you when I retire, I will also be a LCDR. The two of you pretty much confirmed what I was thinking. Let me just say that there is no way I am leaving AD before my retirement date. I am just looking to formulate a plan and set it into motion while I am still in.

How does this plan sound.
I am going to go over and join the Navy flying club when I get back off of deployment ( are we going to war or not ). I want to get some fresh hours and a little bit more time/experience. Then I may hit one of those get your private in a week places just so that I can build the hours on my own rather than spend all several months with an instructor. After that I will try to get all the tickets (instructor, commercial, etc..) I can and hopefully do some instructing for the 5 years till I retire. That should give me a good base 300+ of hours I would hope. Also I have an A&P license so maybe I can trade wrench turning for flight time somewhere here in Tidewater.

With this plan, what would be a good option for post retirement?
1. Keep going this way till I have enough hours to get hired
2. Hit one of the FO programs to try to get a job.
3. Try to get some sort of type rating and look for a job from there.

Also on another note with 20 years of aviation maintenance experience and 10 years of that running the Maintenance department for different operational squadrons is there a flying job where this would be of use? Maybe in a civilian maintenance department flying?

 

[Slim]

duksrule,

I did it...you can too!

I retired a year ago from the ARNG, non-rated and am a medical reject from USAF UPT. Currently, I am a captain at Comair.

Since you are in the Tidewater area, look at the aero club at Quantico MCAS. I flew there for several years while in the Northern Virginia area. Since then, they have become a Part 141 flying school.

Regarding the use of New GI Bill...I don't know the answer. You may need to talk to someone in the VA about specific use of Chpt. 106 benefits in your situation. In order to utilize those benefits, you must have a private pilot's license. I used Chpt 106 to complete CFII and MEI training.

I recommend the PPL while you are in, then look at Part 141 schools for training. When you retire, hit the schools for the remainder of your certificates and time.

Good luck...Fly safe!

 

[F18-FDX]

Wow, great answers and lots of good info. The only thing I can add is that if you are in the Tidewater area, Langley AFB has a great flying club with some excellent instructors and the full range of ratings. GI bill welcome. Go for it, chase your dream.

 

[duksrule]

Does anyone know anyone at the NAS Norfolk flying club? I am on the Truman in Norfolk ( well actually in the MED now ) so the Norfolk club would be the most convenient. I have heard that Langley has the best equipment though.

 

[F18-FDX]

Langley is pretty much the only option, unless something has changed, NAS Norfolk club shut down a couple of years ago because they didn't have enough participation to cover costs/insurance, etc. That would have been convenient for me too. Langley does have nice equipment and a professional atmosphere, plus the other things I mentioned. It's worth the ride across the bridge.

 

[duksrule]

Wow that shows how long I have been away from it. Well looks like Langley it is. I am sure that it is probably cheaper that anywhere out in town.
Thanks for the info

 

[Bustamove]

duksrule, I'm four or five years ahead of you in the military program but probably behind you in the pro pilot program since those four or five years are like runway behind you, fuel in the truck, etc. In other words I wasn't able to use them for ratings and hours and am now scrambling to be employable before retiring in '04.

The above responses are great and in line with what I've found over the past year and half or so of pretty seriously studying the 'is it too late' question. Bottom line, as stated above, is it's not too late but get on it now. Get your ratings - you can us GI Bill while active - to get your post-PPL ratings and then start building hours. The other advantage of that is that if you decide somewhere in the program that flying isn't your cup of tea you'll still have plenty of time while on active duty to pursue other options.

Finally, unless you're a flying prodigy getting back into the student mode can be frustrating and humbling at times. Stick with it, put your ego behind you when necessary, and keep in mind that guys with a lot less going for them than you have made it work. I'm hoping to be one of those guys someday, but in the meantime Jim and some other school of hard knocks graduates on this board give good advice.

Feel free to pm me if you've got specific question on GI Bill or other specifics to getting started and best of luck.