National seniority system

[pupilot007]

I want to get peoples thoughs on a national seniority system. Of course, furloughed pilots have to start at the bottom of the seniority list in the current system if they elect to go to a new airline.

With the national system, the pilot can keep their status (i.e. 767 driver) no matter what airline they are with. Of course, this screws the individuals below them trying to upgrade and can lead to a decrease in loyalty to a company if they can simply switch to a new one without penalty.

Is there a way to make this system work?

 

[pupilot007]

National Seniority System

I started this post in the general thread but it might be more appropriate here...

I want to get peoples thoughs on a national seniority system. Of course, furloughed pilots have to start at the bottom of the seniority list in the current system if they elect to go to a new airline.

With the national system, the pilot can keep their status (i.e. 767 driver) no matter what airline they are with. Of course, this screws the individuals below them trying to upgrade and can lead to a decrease in loyalty to a company if they can simply switch to a new one without penalty.

Is there a way to make this system work?

 

[mmmdonut]

Is there a way to make this system work?

Sure.... as long as I'm #1

 

[100LL... Again!]

Nope, not really, because it is certain that there will be enough of those who are (1) still employed, and especially those who are (2) senior, and even more (3) those who have sympathy for scabby behavior will certainly sell out thos who are (1) furloughed, (2) junior, and (3) willing to do the right thing.

It wouldn't take a very large percentage to really screw up the plan.

Add in some disinformation, scare tactics and the chance that a major or two will fail, and you got a scared mob lynching someone.


Also, according to what you posted, if a furloughed guy goes to the bottom at a new carrier, then what good is national seniority?

 

[satpak77]

Is there a way to make this system work?

No

this topic has come up time and time again and for reasons above my IQ level it has never been implented over the last 30 years

it aint gonna start tomorrow

 

[typhoonpilot]

Fifteen years ago there was a big push for this. At that time I thought the only way it would ever work is to start giving all new hires a national seniority number. That way in about 35 years everybody would have one. It would take that long to fully implement it, but once implemented we would have it forever.

Of course then you start with all the logistics of how it would work. Does every airline pilot get a number or just ALPA members ? Do major new hires and regional new hires get treated the same ? How do you make an airline hire a guy with a national number, don't they have a say in who they can or can't hire ?

It is a noble idea and in a fantasy world where greed, envy, jealousy, and shortsightedness didn't exist it might work.

Typhoonpilot

 

[46Driver]

Is there a way to make this system work?

No. And I wouldn't want it to. You choose your company and go from there.

 

[mmmdonut]

nevermind

 

[pupilot007]

Thats the point. In the current system, a furloughed pilot has to go back to start when he is hired with an new carrier. With a national system, he can retain his seniority status no matter who he flies for. It is a good idea for the pilot in theory, but I personally dont think it can work well. Unfortunately, I have to write a paper on how to improve a national seniority system! Go figure. The major issues are pay, vacation, and bidding. I have an idea for pay, but not the other two.

Appreiciate the comments.

 

[pupilot007]

I think it is a good idea too. In theory. But making it work would take some pretty ingenious thinking and a lot of issues which need to be hammered out. And of course there is no way to get rid of human error (i.e. greed), but there should be some way to make it happen...thats just my opinion. Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to figure out how

 

[flyf15]

Seems like your "national senoirty" would be pretty proportional to the amount of hours you have total time. Why not base it off of that?

 

[Corona]

Look at it from a senior FO's point-of-view: This hypothetical FO works for a well-managed airline (Example: SWA). A poorly-managed airline (Example: insert name here) goes bankrupt. The good airline, in a near-continual growth phase, is hiring pilots. The idiot-run airline has a much senior list of pilots. The senior FO, who has spent several years in the right seat was on the verge of UPG. Now, after good airline hires the pilots from idiot airline, he now gets to spend many more years in the right seat. Possibly he even gets reduced in seniority relative to the pilot group.

The question now is: How would you feel if you are this FO?

 

[Publishers]

Agreement

You cannot even get the union guys to agree on anything, let alone those who are not part of it. This would only work in a closed loop system and that is not going to happen..

 

[Thedude]

We would have a pilot guild setting min pay before we ever have a national senority number.