National Day Off.

[PCL_128]

Alright, so we've now established that the only poster on flightinfo that's dumber than HelloNewWoman is Jungle_Jet. Glad we got that cleared up.

 

[Gorilla]

Jungle Jet, we'll pretend for a moment that your vision of the airline world is a reality. Think you'd ever see something like this?

Management: "We've got a jet in Sioux City with a mechanical. If we keep it quiet, we can still fill it with revenue and get it back to Philly for an overnight repair. Don't let the Feds find out. Now, who will fly it? Captain Jones refused it? Threaten him with termination. Ahh, here's one. Captain Kissy knows how to play ball. He's there with F/O Bootlick. Pair them. Tell Bootlick we'll get him into the next captain class, and we'll make Kissy a Chief with a big raise. For Gawd's sake, be sure they know to keep their mouths shut!"

Kissy and Bootlick launch with an open mechanical, and 148 souls on board. Probably they make it. Maybe not.

"But... but... NO manager would EVER try something like that! They'd DO THE RIGHT THING! They'd follow the spirit of the FAR's. They'd NEVER be unsafe. Never cut corners."

If you believe that, you haven't been in this business long enough. Because of seniority, because of Unions, Captains have the power to refuse the flight, and expose such behavior.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

Jungle Jet, we'll pretend for a moment that your vision of the airline world is a reality. Think you'd ever see something like this?

Management: "We've got a jet in Sioux City with a mechanical. If we keep it quiet, we can still fill it with revenue and get it back to Philly for an overnight repair. Don't let the Feds find out. Now, who will fly it? Captain Jones refused it? Threaten him with termination. Ahh, here's one. Captain Kissy knows how to play ball. He's there with F/O Bootlick. Pair them. Tell Bootlick we'll get him into the next captain class, and we'll make Kissy a Chief with a big raise. For Gawd's sake, be sure they know to keep their mouths shut!"

Kissy and Bootlick launch with an open mechanical, and 148 souls on board. Probably they make it. Maybe not.

"But... but... NO manager would EVER try something like that! They'd DO THE RIGHT THING! They'd follow the spirit of the FAR's. They'd NEVER be unsafe. Never cut corners."

If you believe that, you haven't been in this business long enough. Because of seniority, because of Unions, Captains have the power to refuse the flight, and expose such behavior.

Son, I've probably been in the business longer than you've been alive, or at least been legal to fly. No need to lecture me on the realities of the business.

What keeps an airline from unsafe practices? If you think ALPA does you're sadly naive and well indoctrinated. Do you think airplanes falling from the sky is good for business?

You know what I would do if faced with that sort of situation? Better yet, know what I've done when I have?

Walked.

Know what would make it easier for all of us to do that, hence provide even less incentive for mgmt to do that? If I didn't have to worry about starting at the bottom at a new carrier as a fresh FO. That's the sillyness union mandated seniority numbers give us.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

Alright, so we've now established that the only poster on flightinfo that's dumber than HelloNewWoman is Jungle_Jet. Glad we got that cleared up.

Oh, collectivist thinking is so entertaining to watch.

When did you lose your ability to think for yourself? Have you always been this way, or were you indoctrinated somewhere?

Why is it leftist types so frequently resort to personal insults when someone doesn't agree with them?

 

[PCL_128]

Indoctrinated? I don't think so. I've simply been a union rep that had to represent pilots that management tried to pressure into taking unsafe airplanes. I've been there to stop management from terminating pilots that had done nothing more than the right thing for safety. Your little utopian vision of the airline world is a fantasy.

 

[Gorilla]

Son, I've probably been in the business longer than you've been alive.

The only thing worse than such a naieve worldview is when it is presented in such a patronizing manner.

"Gee Whillikers, PawPaw, thanks for enlightening all us younglings. Please, tell us again about the time you were barnstorming for food?" Please, let's not start playing the "I've got more Types than you" game.

What keeps an airline from unsafe practices?

It's sure not management's benevolence. I'd say it's an equal mix of fear of the Feds, Unions, and the financial backlash when hundreds of souls die screaming. We have a certain control over the latter two.

You know what I would do if faced with that sort of situation? Better yet, know what I've done when I have?

Walked.

Goody. Do you think the frequency of such situations would go DOWN, or go UP, without unions? Pick one.

Know what would make it easier for all of us to do that, hence provide even less incentive for mgmt to do that? If I didn't have to worry about starting at the bottom at a new carrier as a fresh FO. That's the sillyness union mandated seniority numbers give us.

In your happy and gay union-free airline world, do you think maybe that as a guy who walks away from that mechanical, your name just MIGHT end up somewhat highlighted as an "uncooperative" pilot? Hmmm. There's a normal procedure when you interview. You typically list where you've worked. Think you'll be hired when they find out you're not a "team player?" "You really don't want to hire that guy. We canned him. He's a rabble-rouser. Complains endlessly."

The seniority system has its flaws, but they pale before the benefits.

 

[Nindiri]

... and pilots were laid by date of hire.

That's a heck of a seniority perk. How can we get that in our contract?

 

[pilotyip]

Real meaning

Nindiri; The ultimate in getting screwed by management

 

[Nindiri]

:laugh:

....

 

[Jungle_Jet]

The only thing worse than such a naieve worldview is when it is presented in such a patronizing manner.

"Gee Whillikers, PawPaw, thanks for enlightening all us younglings. Please, tell us again about the time you were barnstorming for food?" Please, let's not start playing the "I've got more Types than you" game.



It's sure not management's benevolence. I'd say it's an equal mix of fear of the Feds, Unions, and the financial backlash when hundreds of souls die screaming. We have a certain control over the latter two.



Goody. Do you think the frequency of such situations would go DOWN, or go UP, without unions? Pick one.



In your happy and gay union-free airline world, do you think maybe that as a guy who walks away from that mechanical, your name just MIGHT end up somewhat highlighted as an "uncooperative" pilot? Hmmm. There's a normal procedure when you interview. You typically list where you've worked. Think you'll be hired when they find out you're not a "team player?" "You really don't want to hire that guy. We canned him. He's a rabble-rouser. Complains endlessly."

The seniority system has its flaws, but they pale before the benefits.

That's funny because in the real world, such things rarely, if ever happen. Wonder why union membership is dropping nationwide faster than United's market value? Do you collectivists ever think about such things?

Guess what, in the corporate world, where unions are as common as smiles from a Delta FA, those things happen on occasion, but only by bottom feeders. Real outfits where people line up to work do not engage in such practices.

Why have you guys not had any success unionizing those outfits? Could it be they already know they're far better off without you?

 

[MrSky]

"Airport Management, The FAA and The Airlines....Their all Cheats and Liar's!"

Robert Stack - Airplane the Movie