NAS Airlines - Saudi Arabia

[Foxhound]

Anyone have any additional information about NAS Airlines out of Saudi? What kind of TT are people getting hired with and what is it like working there....pros & cons... Is it worth leaving a US regional for?

This is what I've found so far:

- FO pay is $8500/mo
- 6 weeks on/3 weeks off - positive space ticket home
- 12 month contract
- NO Spirits Allowed

 

[Kaudbron]

I found some old info on pprune didn't look good at all, sounded like they had a bunch of 170s sitting around with no one to fly them? Pm me and I can send you a copy of the 170 FO contract from Flight Crew Solutions. You'll be based in Riyadh or Jedah.

Applicability Airbus A320 family and Embraer 170/190 rated First Officers

Qualification requirement JAA/FAA/ICAO Commercial / IR
Class 1 medical
Total time; 1,000 hours plus
Jet; 500 hours plus
Minimum age 21, maximum age 50 years

the website I got the contract info is flightcrewsolutions.com

I'm about to be furloughed and I'm steering away from it, Dubai is one thing but Saudi Arabia defiantly isn't for me....

 

[ifly4u]

I looked in to this recently and I layed out all the pros and cons. The deal breaker for me was safety. Saudi Arabia, particuarly Riyadh, is not any place you want to be.

 

[FirstMate]

I wouldn't want to live in Riyadh necessarily, but Jeddah or the Eastern Province is fairly 'civilized' and friendly from what I've seen. I feel just as safe or more safe in and around those areas more so than I do walking the streets of Anytown Metropolis, USA. Everywhere has its ghettos and rough parts of town. You know where your place is...be smart about where you go, just as you would in the States.

I've always gotten a cold and unwelcoming feeling when in Riyadh. But maybe they are isolated encounters?

 

[OBX]

FoxHound:

What contract company is that with? I saw the terms of a position with Nasair through Flight Crew Solutions and it's not as good as the one you have described.

Thanks!

 

[5w5flyer]

Storm Aviation. I too am steering away from Saudi Arabia. I'll take the job there, but only if that is the only offer I get.

 

[AC560]

Everywhere has its ghettos and rough parts of town.

They don't cut your head off with a steak knife in the bad sections of Detroit though....

 

[avbug]

I feel just as safe or more safe in and around those areas more so than I do walking the streets of Anytown Metropolis, USA.

You really shouldn't. Perhaps you haven't spent any appreciable time there, or lived there. Perhaps you weren't aware that the US consolate was pulled out of Jeddah the year before last after it was raked with automatic weapons fire, or of a terrorist attack just north of there. Or the executions of people from a compound adjacent to ours, two years ago. Or two different roundups of terrorists in-country in the last year and a half, some 200 each time, ready to attack with explosives, weapons, and vehicles...and plans to attack compounds, US citizens, oil facilities, and aircraft in Saudi Arabia...and on it goes. Perhaps you missed the declaration by the Chief Justice in Saudi arabia two years ago, stating that it's okay to kill the owners or purveyors of cable television if it contains what Islam might deem inappropriate material. Or the couple caught living together in a compound near us...who were each given 600 lashes, six months in prison (where they don't provide you with food or water, and you can die if someone doesn't come care for you)...then deported out of the country. Or perhaps even the fact that under Sharia law, your life is legally deemed at 50% that of a Muslim.

The big difference between walking around in a big city in the US, and walking around in Jeddah or Riyadh or any other town there in the Kingdom is that in the big western city, you're one of a million people, any one of whom could possibly run into trouble by freak coincidence. In the Kingdom, you're a very small minority, and a standing declaration of war exists over your head. You're a hated minority, considered a threat, and more than one organization exists which has as it's highest priority finding you and hurting you if it is able to do so.

It's not at all the same as a big western city.

You can get away with a lot there, or you could be the next al qaeda poster child. More people go there and come away without getting in trouble than do...but the threat is very, very real.

You can do better...go somewhere else.

NAS won't be your friend, either. Their people are unhappy. They don't tend to pay on time. They have long contracts, have reduced their time off, increased their work time, be careful when you consider the pay, because it's not what you think. If you haven't had the pleasure of working with arabs before and coming to understand what it really means to be a second class citizen, give it a shot.

 

[waka]

You really shouldn't. Perhaps you haven't spent any appreciable time there, or lived there. Perhaps you weren't aware that the US consolate was pulled out of Jeddah the year before last after it was raked with automatic weapons fire, or of a terrorist attack just north of there. Or the executions of people from a compound adjacent to ours, two years ago. Or two different roundups of terrorists in-country in the last year and a half, some 200 each time, ready to attack with explosives, weapons, and vehicles...and plans to attack compounds, US citizens, oil facilities, and aircraft in Saudi Arabia...and on it goes. Perhaps you missed the declaration by the Chief Justice in Saudi arabia two years ago, stating that it's okay to kill the owners or purveyors of cable television if it contains what Islam might deem inappropriate material. Or the couple caught living together in a compound near us...who were each given 600 lashes, six months in prison (where they don't provide you with food or water, and you can die if someone doesn't come care for you)...then deported out of the country. Or perhaps even the fact that under Sharia law, your life is legally deemed at 50% that of a Muslim.

The big difference between walking around in a big city in the US, and walking around in Jeddah or Riyadh or any other town there in the Kingdom is that in the big western city, you're one of a million people, any one of whom could possibly run into trouble by freak coincidence. In the Kingdom, you're a very small minority, and a standing declaration of war exists over your head. You're a hated minority, considered a threat, and more than one organization exists which has as it's highest priority finding you and hurting you if it is able to do so.

It's not at all the same as a big western city.

You can get away with a lot there, or you could be the next al qaeda poster child. More people go there and come away without getting in trouble than do...but the threat is very, very real.

You can do better...go somewhere else.

NAS won't be your friend, either. Their people are unhappy. They don't tend to pay on time. They have long contracts, have reduced their time off, increased their work time, be careful when you consider the pay, because it's not what you think. If you haven't had the pleasure of working with arabs before and coming to understand what it really means to be a second class citizen, give it a shot.

such accounts contribute to illustrating how ridiculous and hypocritical it is that we have an embargo on friggin' Cuba while we kiss the asses of Saudis and the Chinese.

 

[tyuwerty]

You really shouldn't. Perhaps you haven't spent any appreciable time there, or lived there.

I have and I am here now. I do feel completely safe. Do you really live here??

Perhaps you weren't aware that the US consolate was pulled out of Jeddah the year before last after it was raked with automatic weapons fire,

The consulate was closed in 2004. It is open now: http://jeddah.usconsulate.gov/service.html
The year before last it was shot at by 2 or 3 uys running away from the police. Hardly a concerted attack.

or of a terrorist attack just north of there.

What attack? the French tourists? It was disgusting what happened to them but the where in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, not a planned attack by any means. The people that did where all caught and executed.

Or the executions of people from a compound adjacent to ours, two years ago.

I have been here for over 3 years and don't recall this one. What is your compound?

Or two different roundups of terrorists in-country in the last year and a half, some 200 each time, ready to attack with explosives, weapons, and vehicles...and plans to attack compounds, US citizens, oil facilities, and aircraft in Saudi Arabia...and on it goes.

Yes there were 2 huge round ups. Their stated goal was the oil fields. Not everything that you outline.

Perhaps you missed the declaration by the Chief Justice in Saudi arabia two years ago, stating that it's okay to kill the owners or purveyors of cable television if it contains what Islam might deem inappropriate material.

That happened this last week.

Or the couple caught living together in a compound near us...who were each given 600 lashes, six months in prison (where they don't provide you with food or water, and you can die if someone doesn't come care for you)...

Not saying that didn't happen, but the water and food portion of what you say is BS.

Or perhaps even the fact that under Sharia law, your life is legally deemed at 50% that of a Muslim.

BS!!! If anything I get treated better than most people here because I am from a Western country.



NAS won't be your friend, either. Their people are unhappy. They don't tend to pay on time. They have long contracts, have reduced their time off, increased their work time, be careful when you consider the pay, because it's not what you think. If you haven't had the pleasure of working with arabs before and coming to understand what it really means to be a second class citizen, give it a shot.

What you say about NAS is true. I just see life in the magic kingdom completely differently.

 

[avbug]

It's really sad that someone can perch themselves among a people such as that and see through such obviously thick glasses. And yes...under Sharia law, if you hit someone in an intersection, a Muslim's life is worth one hundred thousand riyals...while a non muslim's life is worth 50,000...half. Look it up.

I don't live there now, and don't choose to. I did.

The French weren't french tourists. They were French Algerians, Muslims, and on a pilgrimage...and weren't killed by being robbed. They were executed.

The second group of terrorists rounded up in the Kingdom were specifically targeting aviation, as well as Saudi Aramco holdings. The first group was within three days of launching their attack, and were fully prepared to go. Their primary targets were in Riyadh, Qasim, and Hail...three locations, as it turned out, where we were the most active.

You're right though...the Kingdom is just a sunny place where nothing ever happens...just a garden spot for humans rights violations, terrorists, and pious hypocracy.

Last month the roundup of 30 terrorists planning attacks in the Kingdom was probably a mistake.

Saudi Arabia 08/28/2008
Yemeni authorities have arrested 30 suspected militants for planning to carry out attacks in Saudi Arabia. The development follows the recent arrests and handover (in mid-to-late August 2008) of eight Saudi nationals who were detained in raids in Yemen for planning attacks in both Yemen and Saudi Arabia. Information regarding the 30 men arrested on 28 August was obtained from computer documents seized during the earlier raids by Yemeni officials; the information led authorities to conduct raids in the Hadhramout province, located in southeastern Yemen. The men, reportedly linked to al-Qaeda, attempted to join other al-Qaeda members in the kingdom, where they would jointly perpetrate attacks. Specific details regarding the alleged targets and locations of the planned attacks were not released, and no further information regarding this development is available.

This happens in Detroit or LA all the time...or does it? It sure does in Saudi Arabia...

Saudi Arabia 08/20/2008
Yemeni officials have reportedly handed over eight Saudi nationals to Saudi authorities after the men were detained during raids in southern Yemen. The men were part of a group of suspected militants allegedly planning attacks within Yemen and Saudi Arabia. During the security raids, which took place in the town of Tarim in the Hadramout province, authorities discovered documents and blueprints for plans but it is not known if the intended targets were identified. Five other suspected militants were killed in the raid, including one who is suspected of masterminding several car bombings in Yemen that occurred in recent years.

A common warden message for dangerous spots such as Miami, Houston, or Seattle, so the Kingdom is no different, right (?)...

Saudi Arabia 08/13/2008
On 13 August 2008 the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh issued the following Warden Message: "The U.S. Embassy Riyadh has received information regarding an alleged, non-specific threat to Westerners in downtown Riyadh, KSA, possibly during the weekend of 14-17 August, 2008. We have no further details regarding this information at this time; however the Embassy recommends American citizens living in Saudi Arabia consider this information and take appropriate personal security precautions."

 

[tyuwerty]

Just to add to my previous post. Having lived here for over 3 years, there are things I do not agree with in this country. That said... I have been treated with nothing but respect by the Saudis. That goes from the shop keepers right up to the senior management of the company I work for. I have not once had an altercation with somebody because I was Western.

I am here with my family and we do not worry about our safety. We are careful were we go and what we do, but no more so than when in the USA.

In fact I am more paranoid about something happening to my child in the USA than I am over here.

 

[avbug]

We see this a lot in Salt Lake City, or Fargo, of course...

Saudi Arabia 07/07/2008
An explosion occurred in the southern Bishah province on 7 July 2008, killing three people and injuring at least one other. The exact location of the incident was not specified, and no other details were released. The cause of the explosion is not known, but officials speculated that it may have been the result of a "projectile" leftover from military exercises carried out in the desert area.

For those who say there's no crime in the Kingdom...

Saudi Arabia 05/27/2008
Saudi authorities have announced that a gang of criminals responsible for the robbery of numerous office employees in Jeddah has been dismantled. The gang of criminals -- which was comprised of an unknown number of Ethiopian nationals -- would seek out office employees responsible for depositing company cash at banks. They would then follow the victim and rob them, sometimes in front of banking facilities. It is not known if any type of company was specifically targeted. No further information is available.

When the chief justice just issued an edict calling for the death of television station owners who broadcast inappropriate information, is it any surprise high ranking saudi officials are complicit in assasinations?

Saudi Arabia/Syria 04/08/2008
According to reports published on 8 April 2008, officials in Syria have arrested a Saudi official working for the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Damascus in connection with the February 2008 assassination of high-ranking Hizballah official Imad Mughniyeh. Hizballah has accused Israel of "masterminding" the car bombing assassination, but Syrian security forces have stated that the actual operation was perpetrated by locals with Jordanian, Palestinian and Syrian citizenships. Authorities stated that the Saudi official (who is allegedly a high-ranking defense official at the Saudi Embassy) is connected to a local Syrian woman whose name was used to register the two vehicles used in the car bombing. No further information regarding the development was released.

What's this? A terror attack planned in the Kingdom? Say it isn't so!

Saudi Arabia 03/05/2008
On 5 March 2008 a high-ranking Saudi official stated that a recently discovered terrorist cell was reportedly planning to carry out attacks against oil installations as well as security forces in the kingdom. Authorities arrested 28 suspected militants earlier in the week and officials claim that they were receiving instructions from al-Qaeda members operating in another Arab country. Members of the group -- which included three Palestinians, a Yemeni national and Saudis -- were arrested during a security raid for allegedly seeking to rebuild al-Qaeda's presence in Saudi Arabia. It is not known how far along the group was in the planning process; no further information is available.

 

[avbug]

Or another one, this year, too. Go figure...

Saudi Arabia 03/03/2008
Saudi officials announced on 3 March 2008 the arrests of 38 people who were allegedly attempting to reorganize al-Qaeda's branch in the kingdom and carry out terrorist attacks. The group was reportedly using a recording of a high-ranking al-Qaeda leader to raise money from local Saudis. Officials did not specify when the arrests were actually made or how far along the group's planning was. Saudi officials did, however, state that the 28 people were only a portion of a total of 56 people in recent months on terrorism-related charges. No additional information is available.

Yes, that's right. You live in a perfectly safe little garden spot, a haven that's a target for tourism the world over, isn't it? Doesn't everyone flock to KSA to enjoy the atmosphere and the freedom to explore?

Not really. No.

Al Qaeda and others intend to keep it that way, too.

Saudi Arabia 12/24/2007
Saudi authorities have arrested 28 al-Qaeda affiliated militants suspected of planning to stage terrorist attacks during the recently concluded Hajj pilgrimage. The arrests occurred over several days, beginning on 14 December 2007 and were first announced on 21 December. The arrests took place in the provinces of Makkah, Madinah and Riyadh and in an unspecified area near Saudi Arabia's northern border. All but one of those arrested are Saudi citizens. A spokesman for the Interior Ministry stated that the attack did not specifically target holy sites in Makkah or the pilgrims, but he released no further details.

Then there are more government warnings, still within the last year, of course, for that garden spot where you live, where nothing ever happens...that safe haven of Islam where a man can roam freely without any more concern than in any US city...

Saudi Arabia 12/19/2007
On 19 December 2007 the U.S. Department of State issued the following Travel Warning: "This Travel Warning updates information on the security situation in Saudi Arabia and reminds U.S. citizens of recommended security precautions. It supersedes the Travel Warning issued 14 June 2007.

"The Department of State urges U.S. citizens to consider carefully the risks of traveling to Saudi Arabia. The security threat level remains high due to the continued presence of terrorist groups, some affiliated with al Qaida, who may target Western interests, housing compounds, and other facilities where Westerners congregate. These terrorist groups may also target Saudi Government facilities and economic/commercial targets within the Kingdom.

"In February 2007, four French tourists were killed in a terrorist incident on a desert track north of Medina. A gunman fired shots at the U.S. Consulate General in Jeddah in May 2006. In February 2006, terrorists attempted an attack on Saudi oil facilities in Abqaiq in the Eastern Province. An armed attack on the U.S. Consulate General in Jeddah on December 6, 2004, resulted in five deaths and eleven serious injuries among non-U.S. staff members.

"Although extremists have not conducted a successful attack against Westerners since February 2007, the United States Mission in Saudi Arabia remains an unaccompanied post as a result of continued security concerns. The Department of State has approved limited family visitation by adult dependents, in part because of the significant progress Saudi security forces have made in counteracting the terrorist threat within Saudi Arabia as they continue to arrest and break up terrorist cells."

 

[avbug]

At this spiritual time of Ramadan, we should reflect on the peaceful nature of Islam and all it brings to the table...

Saudi Arabia 12/09/2007
On 9 December 2007 the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh issued the following Warden Message: "On or about 18 December 2007 the annual Hajj ritual will begin in the city of Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Up to three million pilgrims will participate and large crowds and congestion will occur in the cities of Mecca, Medina, and Jeddah.

"Americans are reminded that demonstrations and rioting can occur with little or no warning. U.S. Citizens are strongly encouraged to maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to bolster their personal security."

Don't worry when living in Saudi Arabia. The terrorists there aren't very serious...

Saudi Arabia 12/02/2007
More information has emerged regarding the arrests made during a recent security sweep in Saudi Arabia, which was previously reported in HOT SPOTS. Reports on 2 December 2007 indicated that some of the 208 arrested al Qaeda terrorist suspects had smuggled eight Chinese-made missiles into the country prior to their detainment. Officials believe the suspects planned to use the weapons in attacks on hotels and other buildings. There is no further information about the missiles or the alleged plots.

We can compare the peaceful Kingdom to the likes of Minneapolis, or Charlotte, or Buffalo. Nothing bad ever happens there...

Saudi Arabia 11/28/2007
On 28 November 2007 Saudi officials announced that in recent months they have arrested more than 200 militants suspected of planning a series of attacks. The arrests occurred during security operations in various parts of the kingdom. At least one of the alleged plot targeted a state oil installation in eastern Saudi Arabia; however, specific details were not released. Other plots involved assassinations of Saudi clerics and security personnel. It is not known if any attacks were planned directly against foreign interests in Saudi Arabia.

The kingdom has battled Islamist militants since a series of bombings and shootings in the early 2000s. In recent years, Saudi authorities have significantly stepped up security measures and efforts to combat the threat of terrorism. Arrests of militants are not uncommon; in April 2007, Saudi officials announced the arrests of more than 170 militants who were planning numerous attacks against both domestic and foreign interests in the kingdom.

These "French Tourists" weren't far from home. They weren't French, weren't tourists, and lived in a compound in Riyadh.

Saudi Arabia 10/16/2007
Saudi officials have announced the arrest of another Saudi national suspected of being involved in the February 2007 attack and killings of four French tourists in western Saudi Arabia. He is reportedly the last suspect wanted in connection with the attack, and was captured during a security operation in Medina. Eight others were arrested earlier in the year.

What's this? Bad guys in Makkah? It's getting so even the holiest city on earth isn't safe any more...

Saudi Arabia 08/09/2007
Saudi officials announced the arrests of 135 people suspected of sympathizing with Islamist militants in the holy city of Makkah. The men were detained during security raids in the city and investigations are currently underway to determine if any of those arrested have links to "wanted militants." No additional information is available.

Oh, look. Another State Dept. warning. Shocking. Truly shocking. It describes a nirvana-like paradise where one is free to live a life of religious fulfillment and pursue one's dreams with abandon, doesn't it?

Saudi Arabia 06/14/2007
On 14 June 2007 the U.S. Department of State issued the following Travel Warning: "This Travel Warning updates information on the security situation in Saudi Arabia and reminds U.S. citizens of recommended security precautions. It supersedes the Travel Warning issued 19 December 2006.

"Due to concerns about the possibility of additional terrorist activity directed against American citizens and interests, the Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia. The United States Mission in Saudi Arabia remains an unaccompanied post as a result of continued security concerns. Non-emergency employees and all dependents of the U.S. Embassy Riyadh and Consulates General Jeddah and Dhahran were ordered to leave the country on 15 April 2004. An armed attack on the U.S. Consulate General in Jeddah occurred on 6 December 2004, resulting in casualties among the non-American staff and damage to consulate facilities. On 13 November 2005, the Consulate General in Jeddah closed the visa section for security reasons that require the assistance of the Government of Saudi Arabia to resolve. On 12 May 2006 a lone gunman fired shots at the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah. There were no injuries. The consular section remains open for American citizen services.

"Terrorist groups continue to target housing compounds and other establishments where Westerners may be located. Saudi Government facilities are also targets. In addition to car bombs and armed assaults involving multiple gunmen against such facilities, terrorists have used ambush attacks to kidnap and/or assassinate individual Westerners. In February 2007, four French residents of Saudi Arabia returning from Madain Saleh were killed in a shooting incident while resting on the side of the Tabruk-Medina highway, approximately 17 km north of Medina. In February 2006, there was a terrorist attack on Saudi oil facilities in Abqaiq in the Eastern Province. There were no U.S. citizens or Westerners injured in this attack.

"American citizens who choose to visit or remain in Saudi Arabia despite this Travel Warning are strongly urged to avoid staying in hotels or housing compounds that do not apply stringent security measures including, but not limited to, the presence of an armed guard force, inspection of all vehicles, and a hardened security perimeter to prevent unauthorized vehicles from approaching the facility. American citizens are further advised to exercise caution and maintain good situational awareness when visiting commercial establishments frequented by Westerners or in primarily Western environments. Keep a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel, and ensure that travel documents and visas are valid. American citizens are also advised to exercise caution while driving, entering or exiting vehicles. "