My-Your chance of flying steam gauges?

rumpletumbler

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Since I've been in computer support for the past 20 years you would think I would love digital stuff but it isn't true. While its ok I much prefer steam. I'd be much more excited I think about my re-entry into flying if I thought I might get to fly a DC-8, B707, or an L-1011. Granted with my age and just getting back in etc. I may never see anything that size but those are the kinds of aircraft that I love. I know some are still around and wonder what those in the know have to say about their retirement etc. Will enough of them be flying in say 5-10 years to have a shot at it? Are there people fighting over them or are folks clamoring to get into the digital cockpits? Oh yeah how about the old DC-8's that just poured the black smoke! YEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAA!! Please tell me there are a few of those still around.

RT
 

KlingonLRDRVR

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Love "steam guages" come on over to the dark side. Those old frieght Lears are nothing but old steam guages with basic nav instruments. You are lucky to have a VFR only GPS. Fortunately or unfortunately they will be arond a long time. Longer than most of the old DC-8's I fear. While they are not DC-8's they are a blast to fly and sure are a good plane to train you for flying a big one. If night freight is not for you it is good to learn early on so you can follow another path. I wish you luck in your endevers.

Klingon LRDRVR
 

bigsky

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Some of the majors are still flying 72s and Im sure many of the freight and non sched outfits will be flying older dc10,dc8s, 72 and older 74s for many years to come.
 

enigma

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If you are looking to fly those specific types, (707, DC8, or TriStar) you will most likely end up flying freight, Or flying in south/central America. The TriStars, are probably gone, and the 707's have been gone for a couple of decades. The Diesel8's are still flying a little freight, but that market is so volatile it's hard to keep up.

If you are just looking to fly steam gauges, try someone that is flying DC9's ( NWA, USAJet, AirTran, Spirit, Southeast), 727's (Laker), or early 737's (Ryan, SWA who will probably keep theirs until they die ). Or as Klingon mentioned, try any one of a numerous group of business jets. The Lear series is almost all steam gauge until you get to the 45 and 60. Falcon 10's and 20's are round dials. etc.
Good Luck
 

avbug

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Who looks at the gages?

With all the spinning around and movement, personally I just get a headache. I've found that a good crossword makes it all go away. Throw an autopilot in there, and now you're really cooking with gas!
 

AK737FO

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Steam vs. Glass

No doubt about it steam is cool... You have to use the grey matter between your ears to plan your descent rather than V-nav path. With that said, every top of descent is new and exciting especially with a crossing restriction. You want me to cross this point at 10,000 - no problem, but can I cross it at barber pole?

On the other side, glass is cool in its own way. No doubt it is safer in south east Alaska. EGPWS rocks - almost as good as looking out the window. RNP approaches are something right out of Star Wars. Pure Magic.

When flying steam there is nothing quite as satisfying as closing the thrust levers at FL 350 and spooling them back up at 500 feet for landing... puts a grin on my face for the rest of the day.

The JT8D-17A fuel burn is what will eventually kill our 200's. Wathcing the fuel flows hit 12,000 pph on take off boggles my mind. Glad I'm not buying the gas!
 

avbug

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A descent is exciting? A crossing restriction exciting? Heaven help us.
 

DC8Driver

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Spoken like a man that has never flown glass.

My only experience on glass was in the sim. It was fantastic!

I'm looking forward to the future not the past.

Flying a DC8 was great experience. You'll get tired of old dirty and unreliable airplanes. Newer is always better. The last DC8 was built in '72.
 

AK737FO

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Relax...

Avbug,
Relax, have a sandwich... Did somebody wake up with their grumpy face on today and can't find their sense of humor?

If you have flown steam then you know that trying to plan an efficient TOD can be a challange but it is also fun. The goal is to reach TOD, close the throttles, join the arc (remember those?), configure and spool up at the FAF. Doesn't always work out, but it is a goal. Sure I could start down early, dragging along a bunch of gear and flaps turning dead dinosaurs into noise... but that wouldn't be nearly as much fun!

Glass is ok, but it does all the thinking for you - tells you when to start down, tells you when to configure (on our RNP approaches) - where is the fun in that? When flying glass I feel more like a typist than a pilot.

Have a good weekend.
 

TriStar_drvr

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Having never flown glass, I'm dreading the day I start class on a "modern" airplane. You know what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks...
 

avbug

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Grumpy face? No. I was up very early with severe indegestion, but no "grumpy face."

If the day ever comes that meeting a crossing restriction gives me a thrill, I'll quit flying entirely and drive a beer truck.

Yesterday I had a short-notice dispatch to a fire on the south end of an island. Turbulence was severe, windshear at the dropsite 40 knots, and the drop was over a sharp ridge and into a tight canyon. The workload was high, with a moderate pucker factor. I wouldn't call that a thrill, either, but if the day comes that making a power off descent, or meeting a crossing altitude is the cats meow, then I'm done. I hope the wings come off long before then.

Sitting at FL350 and watching the night slice cleanly into day, with a clear sunrise and sunset on each wing, is a spiritual thrill. Overflying the Grand Canyon and realizing that you're looking down on the fingerprint of God, is a thrill. Watching a student solo for the first time, or sitting in the cockpit as they realize a concept for the first time, is a thrill. Breaking out of a heavy smoke column bathed in sweat and alive, to hear the words "load and return," is a good thing. To each his own, I suppose.

"Flying a DC8 was great experience. You'll get tired of old dirty and unreliable airplanes. Newer is always better. The last DC8 was built in '72."

Speak for yourself on that one; I've never tired of older airplanes. Older and unreliable are different things; the two don't equate. Perhaps "unique" would be a better word than "unreliable." Some of my favorite airplanes were built during or before the second world war. The last 4Y was built in 1945. Still a great airplane.

I remember flying with a captain in a corporate airplane once. The captain was new to the company, and has "stepped down" from a highly automated aircraft into our meager "older" jets. The captain commented that it was so nostalgic to be flying these aircraft (Lear 35). He scoffed at the "round gages." I commented that this was brand new technology compared to what I had been flying before. Different worlds...but that "old technology" did just fine for a lot of people, for a lot of years...and it still works great. How can it be nostalgic if it's working today as good as it ever did, earning a living, and doing it's job? Folks to see older equipment as antiquated or round gage as nostalgic are probably the same ones who put their nose in the air and proclaim that props are for boats, or other such trite arrogant immature commentary.

If it does the job and works as advertised, then it's certainly good enough for me.
 

TurboS7

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The best thing about flying glass is just clicking all the stuff off prior to TOD and flying everything the way we used to do it. You can tell by the body language of the new FO next to you that he thinks the airplane is going to fall out of the sky..... then he goes to the safety committee and the chief pilot.....Next I get called in for a discussion that results in a great get together going over old times. Yes, I love glass........................Tri-star driver don't worry about it, it is a piece of cake once you learn where to look for everything.
 

Brett Hull

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frickin pilots

Tell me it ain't true Turbo. Tell me I won't really have to deal with d!ckheads like that when I make it to the "show".

I love it in this business that when you can do something others can't, you're "unsafe".
 

TurboS7

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Yup, that is part of the game. Usually the pilots that don't have the ability are the first to run to the chief pilot as soon as you do something non-standard, or something the other pilots don't do.
It's not all of them just one or two but that is all it takes to make your life as a captain a pain.
 

FLYnMONKEYS

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give me glass..........with moving map, wx radar overlay and fms.....don't forget my crew meal
 

CF34-3B1

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TurboS7 said:
The best thing about flying glass is just clicking all the stuff off prior to TOD and flying everything the way we used to do it. You can tell by the body language of the new FO next to you that he thinks the airplane is going to fall out of the sky..... then he goes to the safety committee and the chief pilot.....Next I get called in for a discussion that results in a great get together going over old times. Yes, I love glass........................Tri-star driver don't worry about it, it is a piece of cake once you learn where to look for everything.

Gotta love that.

When the weather is good and I'm feeling frisky I like to hand fly raw data.

The other day, I was flying with a very new FO. As we took the runway for takeoff, he noticed I hadn't brought up the flight director command bars.

"Do you want the command bars up?"

"Nope, I'm gonna fly it raw data for a while." (Curious look from FO)

After being given a heading by ATC to join the departure FO asks "Do you want NAV mode?"

"Nope." (Another puzzeled look from FO)

"But how are you going to intercept the radial?"
 

TurboS7

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When I was in Europe I was on my final leg of OE getting checked out with a British airline(last year prior to 911) We were cleared to hold at Kavala(Turkey in the mountains, Kavala might be in Greece but the border is right there) at FL100 in thunderstorm. Just 5 miles from the VOR we lost all our FMC's,CDU's and all four ND's. I entered the hold using the RMI and raw data, held then completed the approach. The checkairman was extremely happy and said there are pilot's in Europe that couldn't have pulled that off. You have to have the confidence to use the basic's, that means practice, practice, practice. Majic jets are that until they mess up, then there are just like the jarassic classic's in the desert with a CFM-56 under each wing. When we did our checkrides with the CAA they insisted on a raw data NDB with a 25 knot crosswind, both myself and my first officer split the runway-they were impressed.
 

BigFlyr

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TurboS7 said:
Just 5 miles from the VOR we lost all our FMC's,CDU's and all four ND's.
You mean "both" FMC CDU's and "both" ND's... since there are only two of each... I doubt you lost the PFD's though... that would have left you with nothing but the "peanut" standby instrument... A very scary thought. I'm just busting your chops because I know who you are.;)

By the way, in the short time I flew the 737-800, the only time the "majic" failed was on final approach...TWICE!... Funny how that happens! It is necessary to fly raw data for proficiencey purposes... BUT that doesn't mean you have to turn everything off!:eek:
 
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TurboS7

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Yeah we lost the PFD's too, you know the whatchamacallit, it was on 733, of all airplanes. Joff just loves me, thanks for covering for the brain fart.
 

aggiepilot87

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avbug said:
Some of my favorite airplanes were built during or before the second world war. The last 4Y was built in 1945. Still a great airplane.
The Lone Star Flight Museum is restoring a PB4Y-2 to new condition. If you're ever near Galveston, you should stop by and take a look. All their planes are 10's.
 
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