Must be a Gulfstream graduate!

[FlyBunny]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

 

[MarineGrunt]

Impossible to say without all the facts and there are very few in this report...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Do you have any idea what "autoland" means? You are a complete idiot.

 

[PCL_128]

You are a complete idiot.

Bingo!!!

 

[MarineGrunt]

I knew this was gonna get good.........

 

[FlyBunny]

Do you have any idea what "autoland" means? You are a complete idiot.

I think I can tell you a thing or two about it...hhhmmmm....well, lets see,
the 'Plane lands itself' without any physical input by humans...after all the parameters are 'set in'.

No?

I just called my local FBO and they said that they DO NOT have it installed in the C150 (I was also informed that if I use the trim in that 150, it sorta works like an autopilot and would help me keep the altitude within 100').

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Doesnt matter how many hours they have or how many years of experience, humans make mistakes.... that doesnt change the fact that you have no years and no hours and should shut up and stay off the airline board. Also, Gulfstream sucks, Mesa sucks, as do all of the other assembly line flight schools taking a lot of money from those that are looking for short cuts. Just because some good pilots emerge from them doesnt change that fact either. Those people would have been good pilots regardless. You are an idiot.

 

[FlyBunny]

Bingo!!!

Hey, John P didn't appreciate your comment!

As a regional pilot, he has landed many planes with 'autopilot' installed and has developed complete understanding of how it works...and he also understands that if the plane starts drifting on an approach, all you have to do is to disconnet, hand-fly it and even though there will be a tailstrike, that's just how 'autopilot' procedures work. How could you call him and idiot.

And let's not blame the F/O and Captain of a major airline. At least they landed on the correct runway, right?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

This from a guy that claims to have flown a Baron but doesn't know how to spell it!!! One "R" not two as your profile shows there Skippy.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Hey, John P didn't appreciate your comment!

As a regional pilot, he has landed many planes with 'autopilot' installed and has developed complete understanding of how it works...and he also understands that if the plane starts drifting on an approach, all you have to do is to disconnet, hand-fly it and even though there will be a tailstrike, that's just how 'autopilot' procedures work. How could you call him and idiot.

And let's not blame the F/O and Captain of a major airline. At least they landed on the correct runway, right?

Once again, you show your ignorance.

And how many autoland approaches have you flown, cessna boy? I didn't always work for a regional, and I have flown large jets equipped with autoland. And sometimes when the autoland screws up, you take the plane and do your best. And sometime you hit the tail.

Let's explore your firsthand knowledge from the cockpit of an airliner. Tell us why you're qualified to even have an opinion kid.

 

[MarineGrunt]

There is a difference between autoland functions and autopilot coupled approaches which you seem to be referencing.

Doing a quick search, it appears that the pitch attitude between landing attitude and tail strike attitude of a 757 is only 3 degrees or so. I could definately see how this could happen with disconnecting the autopilot in the flare, especially if you have to maneuver back toward centerline.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

What makes you think it was an unstable approach, if the autopilot doesn't perform as demanded we disconnect the autopilot before it becomes an unstabilized approach. Nobody sits back and watches the autopilot go somewhere we don't want it to go. Sounds like the FO did exactly that.

Let me guess, you attend Gulfstream and your trying to make it sound good? and then maybe you will get your dream job at Mesa.

 

[The_Russian]

No this guy bashes GIA all the time. He's just a worhtless CFI who is pissed because no one will hire him. His arrogance shows through!

 

[satpak77]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

with your 1200 hours of "request left closed traffic Tower" I am sure you can teach the entire forum lots of things

moron

 

[aussieflyboy]

I'm pretty sure flybunny's not a "cennsa-boy"... because he's actually a she I think.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Hey FlyBunny,

I hope you never strike a tail skid, clip a wing tip, ground loop or have any mishap, but wait, you are mister(or missus)perfect pilot, who with 1200hrs makes no mistakes ever!

Punk, I've forgotten more than you know.

And by the way, that's why there is a tail strike skid on long aircraft like the 757, because the engineers knew this might actually happen, and planned for it.

Twit.

Rekks

 

[jeroom]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

I think you're a complete tool...you have no ideas what you're talking about.
I wouldn't like to be your passenger next time you get an engine failure in that baRRon, it will be too late to grab the POH and try to be the perfect pilot that you think you are.
I recommend you to stop watching "Top Gun" and to go to a few safety seminars... you might learn something... but right now.. you're a tool.

 

[mdanno808]

It sounds to me like the autopilot took an excursion during or close to the flare, which is about the worst time it could happen. Should the guy have grabbed the controls and went around? Probably. But it sounds like he did an okay job considering the circumstances. It's easy to sit at the computer and bash this guy, but let's see how you would react if while the autothrottles were coming back, and the annunciator changed to flare, the thing rolled into a thirty degree bank at about 25 feet off of the ground.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

You picked a poor example to try and gain sympathy for your pro Gulfstream cause. This is far, far different then two pilots getting giddy over climbing up to FL410, stalling, switching seats during the drift down, etc. I'll leave the Comair accident alone until we hear the CVR and the investigation comes out, but that's far different right off the bat from a system failure related last second incident.

And to respond to previous posts in other threads that stated Gulfstream has never had an accident. I do believe the 1900 is about the most forgiving and best power to weight ratio transport aircraft you could fly. I've witnessed one taking off, leveling into ground effect to the end of the runway, and then zooming up like the original Lear Jets. Plus, I've spoken to various 1900 pilots and all have seemed to pull these type of stunts more then once. One pilot told me he flew a 1900 through a thunderstorm and the windshield caked up with more then a couple inches of ice that eventually burned off. Which is probably part of the problem. Very low time guys buying their training in a forgiving transport aircraft; then go into a CRJ that's not as forgiving and don't recognize it.

 

[Prog 2/2]

Doing a quick search, it appears that the pitch attitude between landing attitude and tail strike attitude of a 757 is only 3 degrees or so. I could definately see how this could happen with disconnecting the autopilot in the flare, especially if you have to maneuver back toward centerline.

Bingo. Nice job of seeing through the BS.

The nose will also tend to pitch up at spoiler deployment, though it is not as pronounced as the 767-300, A-300, and others.

Anytime after "Flare" turns green and "Idle" is annunciated is a bad time to introduce manual corrections, and most companies procedures stress doing so only in the most dire circumstances.

Putting a main in the grass is one of those circumstances.

But then again, I didn't attend Gulfstream or anything like it, so with my inferior training, what do I know ?

 

[Kip Dynomite]

You picked a poor example to try and gain sympathy for your pro Gulfstream cause. This is far, far different then two pilots getting giddy over climbing up to FL410, stalling, switching seats during the drift down, etc. I'll leave the Comair accident alone until we hear the CVR and the investigation comes out, but that's far different right off the bat from a system failure related last second incident.

And to respond to previous posts in other threads that stated Gulfstream has never had an accident. I do believe the 1900 is about the most forgiving and best power to weight ratio transport aircraft you could fly. I've witnessed one taking off, leveling into ground effect to the end of the runway, and then zooming up like the original Lear Jets. Plus, I've spoken to various 1900 pilots and all have seemed to pull these type of stunts more then once. One pilot told me he flew a 1900 through a thunderstorm and the windshield caked up with more then a couple inches of ice that eventually burned off. Which is probably part of the problem. Very low time guys buying their training in a forgiving transport aircraft; then go into a CRJ that's not as forgiving and don't recognize it.

After reading your recent posts, I feel I can now compose a simile in your honor. You are to aviation as Led Zeppelin is to classic rock. I can't wait to experience the real life grace of an aviation god. What time are your pilot ministry services? How do I convert? Is it a full four day baptism, or can I get it done in just a turn. Thank you for imparting your infinite wisdom concerning the how to and how not to become a regional pilot. I'm sure there's a waiting list of pilots waiting to fly with you. Maybe I can pay a particular sum and cut my way to the front of this long line.

 

[b19]

If I had to guess-yeah I know bad to speculate

If I had to guess, this incident may have happened during the de-crab,quite possibly between the loc being a little off centerline, prevailing crosswinds, and the de-crab bringing the nose around,(the mains are tracking the centerline, but the nose and your but is hanging out over the grass, maybe a little different picture than you are used to) all of this happening at about 50' with the auto throttles rolling back - and you are going to express your ignorance to criticize a fellow professional without even waiting for the ntsb report.

How about a little respect for a fellow brother/sister, and a recognition of "there but the grace of God go I", if you don't look at this stuff and realize how easily it could have been your ass, well then you are too FFFking stupid to ever drive large aircraft and quite possibly little ones.

You may just find out the pilot did everything right and avoided a bigger problem, how about a little respect, a little learning and a little safety.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

After reading your recent posts, I feel I can now compose a simile in your honor. You are to aviation as Led Zeppelin is to classic rock. I can't wait to experience the real life grace of an aviation god. What time are your pilot ministry services? How do I convert? Is it a full four day baptism, or can I get it done in just a turn. Thank you for imparting your infinite wisdom concerning the how to and how not to become a regional pilot. I'm sure there's a waiting list of pilots waiting to fly with you. Maybe I can pay a particular sum and cut my way to the front of this long line.

Hah, hah. I never pronounced myself aviation God or said I didn't make mistakes. But I guarantee you I have never pushed the limits of an aircraft, especially a transport category unless you count fun in the simulator which is quite different then doing so in a real airplane. I sure hope that current and former Gulfstream pilots recognize that not every airplane is a toy like the 1900.

 

[737 Pylt]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060908X01318&key=1

Yep, F/O at the controls yet again...must be a Gulfstream graduate, right?

But wait...let's be careful...it's DELTA, OH MY, what am I thinking? On this board...how can we questions skills of major airline pilots...they have thousands and thousand of hours...way more...thou shall not questions 'their' skills and judgment...because on this 'regional' forum, we have very little 'self-esteem' and we all want to be major airline pilots one day and god forbid if our personal info leaks out to the pilot recruiting dept. for 'Delta', so we’re going to just sit and not blame pilots at this point, but if it were a da*n Pinnacle, Mesa, or a former Gulfstream pilot, we’d love to crucify them.

All right, all right...food for thought. Just wanted to share this with folks on the board...

Fire away.

"...if it's an unstable approach, initiate a GO AROUND'...this would've saved the day in PR.

My question is: What was the Captain (PIC) doing while the F/O continued the ‘unstable’ approach?

With all those thousands, and thousands, and yet thousands more hours of flight time and bazillion years of ‘EXPERIENCE’, how could she/he let the 757 drag its tail?

Bunny

P.S. I don’t know the pilot’s detail…for all that matters, he/she might be a graduate/former employee of those organization mentioned above.


Can someone post the Captain's and the F/O background, thanks. Just want to start a debate regarding the difference between the skills of a 'major' airline pilot vs. 'regional' airline pilot.

Of we go.....

I can't even imagine why I'm answering a post about autoland by a 1200 hour wonder cfi! Stick to turns around a point junior, and worry about what time your next cross country flight is!
737

 

[The_Russian]

You picked a poor example to try and gain sympathy for your pro Gulfstream cause. This is far, far different then two pilots getting giddy over climbing up to FL410, stalling, switching seats during the drift down, etc. I'll leave the Comair accident alone until we hear the CVR and the investigation comes out, but that's far different right off the bat from a system failure related last second incident.

And to respond to previous posts in other threads that stated Gulfstream has never had an accident. I do believe the 1900 is about the most forgiving and best power to weight ratio transport aircraft you could fly. I've witnessed one taking off, leveling into ground effect to the end of the runway, and then zooming up like the original Lear Jets. Plus, I've spoken to various 1900 pilots and all have seemed to pull these type of stunts more then once. One pilot told me he flew a 1900 through a thunderstorm and the windshield caked up with more then a couple inches of ice that eventually burned off. Which is probably part of the problem. Very low time guys buying their training in a forgiving transport aircraft; then go into a CRJ that's not as forgiving and don't recognize it.

Hah, hah. I never pronounced myself aviation God or said I didn't make mistakes. But I guarantee you I have never pushed the limits of an aircraft, especially a transport category unless you count fun in the simulator which is quite different then doing so in a real airplane. I sure hope that current and former Gulfstream pilots recognize that not every airplane is a toy like the 1900.

Are you ********************ing serious? I find it hard to believe that you are as much of an idiot as you appear to be. No one is this stupid!

Fly2Scuba and Fly Bunny must be flaming. These comments are about as unprofessional as I can possibly imagine. You people need to stop this crap right now.

 

[federico]

Are there any real jet pilots here who can say how many degrees you need on the 75 to do a tail strike. On the Bus its 18 degress wich is very hard to do. Pls no CFI steep turn teaching not it alls need to comment

 

[federico]

You picked a poor example to try and gain sympathy for your pro Gulfstream cause. This is far, far different then two pilots getting giddy over climbing up to FL410, stalling, switching seats during the drift down, etc. I'll leave the Comair accident alone until we hear the CVR and the investigation comes out, but that's far different right off the bat from a system failure related last second incident.

And to respond to previous posts in other threads that stated Gulfstream has never had an accident. I do believe the 1900 is about the most forgiving and best power to weight ratio transport aircraft you could fly. I've witnessed one taking off, leveling into ground effect to the end of the runway, and then zooming up like the original Lear Jets. Plus, I've spoken to various 1900 pilots and all have seemed to pull these type of stunts more then once. One pilot told me he flew a 1900 through a thunderstorm and the windshield caked up with more then a couple inches of ice that eventually burned off. Which is probably part of the problem. Very low time guys buying their training in a forgiving transport aircraft; then go into a CRJ that's not as forgiving and don't recognize it.

Hey fly2scuba where you dumped by some gulfstream chick or dude thats if you are gai. you have alot to say about gulfstream but at least there not getting dump by Continental like ex PFT xpress jet. Even Colgan is staying in Houston.

 

[federico]

Fly Bunny alias Thunder Kunt. Be glad the FAA even lets you get on a Airplane. lets not even get into female accidents.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Are you ********************ing serious? I find it hard to believe that you are as much of an idiot as you appear to be. No one is this stupid!

Fly2Scuba and Fly Bunny must be flaming. These comments are about as unprofessional as I can possibly imagine. You people need to stop this crap right now.

Calling people dumb and stupid with no counter-argument does nothing for your viewpoint. In fact, with exclamation marks and all, you are acting in extreme emotion which makes you more dangerous then I thought. Unless you keep those emotions in check on the flight deck; somehow I doubt that. Fly safe and and at this time don't try for a FFDO position because you won't pass the psych eval.

 

[The_Russian]

Calling people dumb and stupid with no counter-argument does nothing for your viewpoint. In fact, with exclamation marks and all, you are acting in extreme emotion which makes you more dangerous then I thought. Unless you keep those emotions in check on the flight deck; somehow I doubt that. Fly safe and and at this time don't try for a FFDO position because you won't pass the psych eval.

This has gotta be flamebait! You are making unsupported and uneducated comments. Therefore, you are stupid. If you think I am crazy....

Guess what? I am going flying RIGHT NOW!!!!