Muslims/Arab pilots

[chawbein]

Religion doesn't matter. What does matter is that you are a courteous and safe pilot. Also that you speak English well. Oh yeah, and that whole blowing **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** up stuff.

 

[pilot773]

Andy,

I don't believe that your question is valid for an aviation forum, but I'll answer the question for you (my question was related to aviation and religion, so I believe it was applicable to this forum)

Where do I see Israel in 10 years time? In the same place it is now, but hopefully a lot more peaceful. Violence in the Mid east, like many other things, is cyclical. Wars and attacks come and go, then are followed by a period of relative peace, then back to the fighting again.

Would I have a problem with a jewish captain above me or someone under me? Nope. Religion and politics have no place in my aircraft.

Am I against jews as such? No, not at all. I have nothing against anyone who has done nothing to me personally. Believe it or not, most Muslims feel the same. Unfortunately, the silent majority is often outheard by the vocal minority.

The reason I asked this question was because it has something to do with me. I get stared at from time to time when I go rent planes from my local FBO, and I know people of my race who have been discriminated against. I'm not about to be discouraged from flying because of a few redneck hicks who can't see past their own shortsightedness and intolerance.

Back in September my father in law was visiting from Pakistan. He was originally scheduled to fly to England on Sept 12. When he finally got a flight back he was removed from the plane by 4 FBI agents because the pilot didn't want a Pakistani on board. Would it be fair if I were to remove a jewish passenger? I would never consider such a thing just based on the fact he is jewish.

Now then, since you seem to be the only one who didn't have an opinion other than to ask what I think of Israel's future, let me ask you something. Why are you so concerned about Israel, and where do you see it in 10 years?

PS...if you and I were sharing a cockpit, why in God's (or Allah's or Jehovah's or Budda's) name would you ask a question about Israel? Shouldn't that be left for another time outside the airplane or are you so prejudiced that if you saw someone with an Muslim name that you would automatically ask such a question?

 

[Andy Neill]

Straight up answer to a straight up question. I like that.

The reason I ask such a question deals with my intent to show you that there is a point where one's beliefs WOULD make a difference in how one is treated. I would have problems with Klansmen, Nazis, and those who would rather that Israel (or Palestinians) would be obliterated from the face of the earth. I think that such extremists would have a hard time saying something like "I hope that we can learn to live in peace someday." I consider such to be a very real threat to my safety as an American.

When I asked that of an Afghan pilot (named Osama) at our airline, he didn't seem to take offense.

I personally hope that Israel and Palestine would be national entities enjoying full mutual recognition in an environement of peace. I leave it to them to figure out how to get there.

Thanks for your frankness. I hope you will understand that there will some folks like me out there who will be your friends if they can get past the initial concerns.

 

[Orvilleflyer]

I am a Caucasion Captain. I flew with a Middle Eastern F/O for a month. It was a very enlightening experience, and we enjoyed eachother's company. Our attitude in the flightdeck was one of mutual respect and trust. That in and of itself was very uplifting- That with so much crap going on that we could consentrate on the mission at hand, to transport people around the sky safely and on time. On our overnights we would hang out, get dinner, etc. I learned a lot about what it is like to grow up in a war zone. If this guy ever was to "do anything" only he knows it in his heart of hearts. But that's hard to imagine, especially when he was helping old ladies up the stairs and showing young kids the flightdeck, with the kind of smile we all still get about our jobs every now and then- The kind that says it all.

 

[surplus1]

I have a question for all you pro pilots out there.

I am currently hold a ppl and am working full time as an IT geek while working towards the rest of my ratings. I plan to get my CFI and build up hours to get to the regionals and then a major (I hope and pray).

I also happen to be a Muslim.

My question for you folks is if you have any issues with Muslim students learning ho to fly with the goal of flying professionally. A similar question would be if you know any Muslim pilots working with you currently, and if so, do you have any issues with them?

Thanks, and look forward to any responses.

I read your question and I've read all the answers you received so far. My answer is a little diffrent.

1) I would never have known you were a Muslim if YOU had not chosen to bring it up.

2) I would never have cared if you were Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or Hari-Krishna if you hadn't brought it up.

3) Your religion, your politics, your race, your sexual orientation, etc. have nothing to do with your being a pilot, and IT whiz, a carpenter or a garbage collector. How you do what you do, is all that matters.

One more thing, and this is my personal view only.
Since you raised the issue, I have a question for you:

Are you an American? If the answer to that question is YES. I have no problem with any American of any religion.

If the answer is NO. Then my answer is: I am leery of Islamic persons that are not first Americans. Islam believes in the concept of a religious State. i.e., Islamic State. That is a contradiction of the basic American belief and the American Constitution which calls for the separation of Church and State. Those contradictions can never be resolved.

If you are American, then you must accept that premise. NO RELIGION can take over the State. Resolve that conflict and I don't care what your religion happens to be.

Good luck to you.

 

[pilot773]

surplus1,

1. You would know if you see me or read my name. Of course you may mistake me for being Hispanic, but its easy to identify people of various races.

2. I wish more people shared that attitude.

3. see #2

And for your last question, I also agree strongly with a seperation of church and state. Every state in the world that is led by a religious leader is not nearly as developed or advanced as a secular state, including all Muslim countries, the Vatican, etc etc.

 

[IAHERJ]

If you meet the competitive minimums, have a clean flying record, and posess a positive attitude, you will prevail in the airline industry. I personally know several muslim pilots at my airline. They are all fine pilots and great people.

What I do not like in the cockpit is anyone who would bring up or try to debate religous issues with me. I've had a pilot try to "save" me before. After explaining to him that I do attend the Presbyterrian church, went to Episcopal school from kindergarten to 8th grade, then Catholic high school before college, all he could do was ask me if I "really knew the Lord". I almost clocked him. You would think that I was on my way to hell for drinking a few beers on a layover. I also had a Jewish pilot try to argue politics regarding the U.S., and the way it handles problems in the Middle East long before Sept. 11th. He holds Isreali citizenship as well as American citizenship and all he could do is bash the U.S. to me. He brought up the subject at a hotel restaurant/bar and preached to me for 2 hours. After listening intently I asked him why he chose to live in the U.S., and why he didn't just move to another country with better leadership and fly for one of their airlines. He couldn't come up with an answer.

Leave religion out of the cockpit. If some "save the world" person does make it through your airline's interview process and preaches his/her version of whatever religion he/she believes is the only "real" religion, just kindly ask them to keep it to themselves.

IAHERJ

 

[airjackson]

Why is the so-called "silent-majority" so silent?????????

 

[TurboS7]

Jesus said,"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me." He said it I believe it and its good enough for me. John 14:6

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved."John 3:16,17

 

[350DRIVER]

773-
Whether you are Jewish, Irish, Polish, Muslim, Black, white, or purple that is absolutely irrelevant and anyone who thinks otherwise already has a preconceived opinion regarding 'certain" groups and religions. What is however abit odd is that you stated you were "Muslim" and I am unsure what your logic was for doing this.- YOU will be judged on your skills, credentials, accomplishments, positives, judgement and your overall knowledge of aviation when the time presents itself for you to obtain employment as a pilot NOT based upon your religion or "personal" beliefs- "Religions" and "personal life" preferences aren't part of any flows or checks that I am aware of-

I haven't flown with any Muslim pilots as of yet BUT when the time presents itself I am 100% sure it will be a "normal" experience and all will go as expected-


Good Luck to you and stay positive..

Cheers
3 5 0

 

[RJPilot]

Reality Check!

In 1972, at the Summer Olympics in Munich, Israeli athletes were taken
hostage and killed by:
(a) Scottish Highlanders
(b) Sonny and Cher
(c) The Viet Cong
(d) Muslim males mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Norwegians from Ballard;
(b) Elvis;
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy;
(b) Crazed feminists complaining that being able to throw a grenade
beyond its own burst radius was an unfair and sexist requirement in
basic training;
(c) Gerardo Rivera making up for a slow news day; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Luca Brazzi, for not being given a part in "Godfather 2;"
(b) The Tooth Fairy;
(c) Butch and Sundance who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from
the train mission, or,
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers;
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems;
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
"Mustapha the Merciless;" or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

On October 12 of 2000, the USS Cole was blown up by a small boat
carrying explosives by:
(a) 2 US Postal Workers who were disgusted with the mail service on US
warships;
(b) 2 Fed Ex employess trying to deliver a fresh load of ammunition;
(c) 2 UPS workers who were tired of wearing their brown uniforms while
sweating it out driving their big brown trucks and decided to make a
statement about "how hot it could get";
(d) 2 Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed thousands of
Innocent lives by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd;
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida trying to outdo the liberals fantasy
about their attempted hijacking of the 2000 Presidential election;
(c) Mr. Bean;
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

Hmmm ............. nope, no patterns anywhere

 

[RJPilot]

BTW-If you all forgot?

http://attacked911.tripod.com/


http://attacked911.tripod.com/

 

[bigD]

It's important to understand that saying that x percent of terrorists are Muslims (as RJ is pointing out) does NOT imply anything about the percentage of Muslims that are terrorists. The vast majority of serial killers are "White Males mostly between the ages of 17 and 40". What does that tell us about white males?

Absolutely nothing.

 

[furloboy]

I fly fighters every day as an instructor for Arab-Islamics. While one-on-one they are generally very pleasant folks, I can tell you--without writing about 100 pages--that in their culture's eyes we are infidels who are undeserving of God's grace.

Also, to a man, they believe that Israel was behind 9-11.

They want Israel off the map. Yesterday. If they had the guts the smarts and the means to do it they would.

I live it every day. All the stereotypes you can imagine are, by-and-large, true.

Pilot 773, though you may encounter a few people in the United States who are as ignorant and narrow-minded as the general Middle Eastern Arab-Islamic population, you probably won't encounter much job discrimination. Good luck to you.

 

[Bluestreak]

Look at this,from a story dated 4-7-02:
"In Lebanon, some 200 young children dressed as suicide bombers with mock explosives strapped round their waists led a rally of 5,000 Palestinian refugees who threatened to attack embassies and hijack planes if harm came to their leader Yasser Arafat.
Tens of thousands marched through Damascus. Thousands took to the streets of Barcelona and 5,000 marched peacefully through Sweden's second city Gothenburg.
Thousands of Turks also demonstrated against Israel for the third day running.
At least one million people filled the streets of Rabat, authorities said, with organizers tripling that number to three million protesters in support of the Palestinians."

"Children dressed as suicide bombers"? WTF ? Maybe these loons are a minority of Muslims worldwide,but that's still a huge amount of people.Make no mistake-Muslims are a very real threat to the U.S.