Multiple Aircraft Qualified

[Fly91]

and they do it everyday.

please - go to your boss and do your "more work, give me more pay"...its kind like your "sit down and shut up, Im PIC"

let us know how that works?....it usually sounds a lot tougher on the internet. Remember, you are super pilot, you are irreplaceable. I have never met a billionaire, CEO, CFO, DO, or ratty management company that gave in to the "demand for more money" as you put it. Change job titles? Have another real offer? etc...sure...but "stand united and demand?" - c'mon, I understand this is Flightinfo..but thats nearly laughable!

If the guy wont pay contract workers or hire additional pilots, what are the chances of him agreeing just to give you raises? - Cant hurt to ask I suppose? I'd be more worried about having to now justify why you wont work more.

As far as currency, its not just about FSI every 6 months....are you staying 90 day current as PIC?

What kind of money and QOL are we talking here? You already making 200K and now have to work another day or 2?...or are we talking making 85k and getting worked much harder?

Your profile nor posts give any guidance on where you are coming from.

"""Sit down and shut up, I'm PIC.""" Nobody ever said that this is how you handle things. Its apparent that you're one of the guys on this site that loves to jump all over anything anyone says. I've already gotten one PM about you, telling me to take everything you say with a grain of salt.

I have never had the problem of having to ask for more money because they want me to fly more often. I usually fly for companies that have their sh1t straight or I wouldn't bother with them. I just got on with my 3rd Part 91 company in 8 years, I am the lead captain for the new jet and I brought one of my buddy's in with me. It'll be me and him ONLY on this jet, flying 8-12 days a month. In the interview I asked about the future plans for this aircraft. They said that I have 100% authority to hire another captain, and send him to type school if necassary (because they only hire within)...if and when things get busy. Thats called a GOOD company.

Now, back on subject.

If my company told me that I had to fly more, it would depend on how much more. 1-2 more days a month, no I would not care because that would only be 14 days a month, thats fine. But if I had to fly another 5-7 days a month and COULD NOT hire a 3rd captain I would certainly be in the office asking for a raise. (((Or actually I would probably quit because I will NEVER work close to 3 weeks per month)))) But again, it would depend on a few different things. They want more responsibility out of me as a pilot, they will have to pay me accordingly. Not out of range, but fairly. I look at it like this, every time I fly I have alot on the line and I want to be paid accordingly. Going from say 10 days a month to 18 days a month is a big difference to me. Its all about the contract and job description you come into the job with. If you just say, "oh, I'm ready to fly, whatever you have, let me loose". Well, good luck with that. I have contracts and expectations. They have expectations and requirements they want in their business...and so do I, in my business as a pilot. My experience is, owners respect that. Or maybe I just fly for great people. Who knows.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I just got on with my 3rd Part 91 company in 8 years, I am the lead captain for the new jet and I brought one of my buddy's in with me. It'll be me and him ONLY on this jet, flying 8-12 days a month. In the interview I asked about the future plans for this aircraft. They said that I have 100% authority to hire another captain, and send him to type school if necassary (because they only hire within)...if and when things get busy. Thats called a GOOD company.

Thats called a GOOD company? - glad to hear you are happy. That goes a long way.

now...here's how it goes...tell the new hire "2 pilots with the promise of a 3rd when things get busy"

:laugh:

New to this game?

You were warned about me?
From another ANONYMOUS poster who wont fill in a profile?
What's to hide?
I'll back up anything I post.


My only point was your "all 3 of you stand together and demand more money you should be able to get raises" is really not how things work once pilots log off the internet.

either way, good luck at the new job!

 

[guido411]

As far as currency, its not just about FSI every 6 months....are you staying 90 day current as PIC?

What kind of money and QOL are we talking here? You already making 200K and now have to work another day or 2?...or are we talking making 85k and getting worked much harder?

Your profile nor posts give any guidance on where you are coming from.

No problem staying PIC current.

We have been operating a small cabin jet. Look at any salary study out there and point to the average, that's what we make. Each of the 3 pilots have been doing work duties 10 days per month average.

New turboprop shows up, we train on the airplane and boss pays for another guy (contractor) to go to school as well. We have been using him 4-6 days per month which results in another day (maybe 2) per month of flying days.

I am not about to go marching up and asking for more money tomorrow. I know we work less than average, are paid average, we are all pretty happy. What I'm trying to accomplish here is to get info so IN CASE the day comes that we are told no more contract pilot that I am armed with data from the real world.

So again, does anybody out there operating two or more airplanes have any policies in place to add compensation when a pilot becomes qual'd on another plane?

 

[Fly91]

now...here's how it goes...tell the new hire "2 pilots with the promise of a 3rd when things get busy"

:laugh:

Uh, yeah. The new plane was purchased because the company just got bigger and merged with another. When a new plane comes available to two partner companies, it usually gets used alot more than you thought.

New to this game?

No.

You were warned about me?

Yes..

From another ANONYMOUS poster who wont fill in a profile?

Post which company you fly for and tell me the chief pilots name.....then I'll do the same. Only morons post detailed info about their jobs on the intraweb.

I'll back up anything I post.

Nothing to back up, these are just opinions from everyone....you just like to say sh1t about everything no matter what it is.

My only point was your "all 3 of you stand together and demand more money you should be able to get raises" is really not how things work once pilots log off the internet.

Ok Joe Pilot. You tell us all what is wrong with asking your company for more money when they tell you that you will now be working more??????

Lets hear it Joe Pilot..............

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No problem staying PIC current.

We have been operating a small cabin jet. Look at any salary study out there and point to the average, that's what we make. Each of the 3 pilots have been doing work duties 10 days per month average.

New turboprop shows up, we train on the airplane and boss pays for another guy (contractor) to go to school as well. We have been using him 4-6 days per month which results in another day (maybe 2) per month of flying days.

I am not about to go marching up and asking for more money tomorrow. I know we work less than average, are paid average, we are all pretty happy. What I'm trying to accomplish here is to get info so IN CASE the day comes that we are told no more contract pilot that I am armed with data from the real world.

So again, does anybody out there operating two or more airplanes have any policies in place to add compensation when a pilot becomes qual'd on another plane?

So, small cabin average seems to run 50-83K at one survey Im looking at?

10 days of work now...and the possibility of 4 more with the new airplane?

14 days of work is what I would call "average" - no longer less than average...but I'd think what always hangs over your head is that flying can pick up real quick with another airplane available.

My main concern would be that PREVIOUSLY when the jet was out with one crew - the 3rd guy was FREE (correct?) no plane around. Now he might have to fly the other one? Now on call all the time? Thats a HUGE QOL hit IMO. That would be my concern. You need 5 pilots with 2 airplanes. We are a 91 dept and pretty active - we currently have 4.5/airplane. Its just about enough but can get busy. Very different situation maybe, but still.

There's a reason 2 Pilots/One Plane almost NEVER works well - the job can change too quick....and never in your favor. If I had a dime for every friggin "we will hire a 3rd or use contract guys later?"...not falling for that again thanks!

Every situation is unique, and I will never again tell a guy he is underpaid, etc..as the job may be PERFECT for him/her...but 3 pilots, 2 airplanes can usually be a big red flag, unless the money, people, QOL are all FAR above average.

Again, sorry I can't provide any hard #'s - I never heard of anyone being able to add another 40K (for example) because a new, smaller airplane showed up. Id shoot for more staffing - QOL would be my goal as you already seem pretty happy with money.

Hope it works!

 

[Fly91]

So again, does anybody out there operating two or more airplanes have any policies in place to add compensation when a pilot becomes qual'd on another plane?

In your case, if the aircraft are all about the same category salary-wise than you need to be paid according to how much you work. Its that simple. Now you can do what you want and ask for more money by yourself, but in my opinion that is not the way to do it. If they say no then you will let everyone else know that they said no and it will end there. If all of you say the extra flying warrants more money, you will all be more likely to get it and noone will look like the greedy pilot. Everyone that has more work to do should ask for more money. Every other occupation on earth works like that, and so does aviation. If an airline pilot was asked to move from the 757 to the 747, he would get more money. If an airline pilot was asked to fly a bid line that has more hours, they get more money. If an airline pilot is asked to fly a bid line that has him away from home more that month, he gets more money. And so on and so on...............

By the way, do you have a contract of any kind?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Post which company you fly for and tell me the chief pilots name.....then I'll do the same. Only morons post detailed info about their jobs on the intraweb.

"Its that simple. Now you can do what you want and ask for more money by yourself, but in my opinion that is not the way to do it. If they say no then you will let everyone else know that they said no and it will end there."


.............say again??

My employer and job title are REAL easy to figure out here. Its no secret from the link below or my profile.

You have little credibility until you can do similar.

"Learjet to 747 and a lot in between", no location, a few posts on FI.com about how far above average you are paid, your 3 jobs in the last few years, and your demanding attitude....well, it dosen't dont go very far outside the "intranet world"

You should have no worries if you work for a good employer and are not talking trash. You claim both of these are true.

Accountability has always been FI.coms downfall.....why not help put an end to that and make it a valuable corporate aviation resource?

What are you hiding from?

 

[54fighting]

IF.....all 3 of you stand together and demand more money you should be able to get raises. More work should equal more pay.

What equipment are you operating?

.

I would definitely not take this approach. It will land your a$$ on the street. No one on this board or in any corporate aviation department is bigger than the department. It will go on without you.

I am not going to rehash what G200 posted but if it were me, I would re-read what he has to say, he usually has some pretty good advice. He has helped me out quite a bit in the past. Some people may not like what he has to say, perhaps because he does not sugarcoat anything. He is a straight shooter.

 

[Fly91]

"Its that simple. Now you can do what you want and ask for more money by yourself, but in my opinion that is not the way to do it. If they say no then you will let everyone else know that they said no and it will end there."


.............say again??

My employer and job title are REAL easy to figure out here. Its no secret from the link below or my profile.

You have little credibility until you can do similar.

"Learjet to 747 and a lot in between", no location, a few posts on FI.com about how far above average you are paid, your 3 jobs in the last few years, and your demanding attitude....well, it dosen't dont go very far outside the "intranet world"

You should have no worries if you work for a good employer and are not talking trash. You claim both of these are true.

Accountability has always been FI.coms downfall.....why not help put an end to that and make it a valuable corporate aviation resource?

What are you hiding from?

I will never post where I work on the internet, simply because its the internet.

So, what would you actually do if your boss said you will be getting checked out on an additional airplane and you will be flying 7 more days a month on average?????

Would you want a raise? Or would you just do nothing?

And when I was asked what salary I was looking for I made it real simple and fair. I took the average of the medium pay and the high pay from AvCrews 2007 salary survey and added 2% because we are halfway through 2008.

Gotta leave, be back in a few hours.


.

 

[400A]

I will never post where I work on the internet, simply because its the internet.

So, what would you actually do if your boss said you will be getting checked out on an additional airplane and you will be flying 7 more days a month on average?????

Would you want a raise? Or would you just do nothing?

And when I was asked what salary I was looking for I made it real simple and fair. I took the average of the medium pay and the high pay from AvCrews 2007 salary survey and added 2% because we are halfway through 2008.

Gotta leave, be back in a few hours.


.

The problem is that you answered the question before you new all of the facts. You seem to like to pound on your chest a lot.

It sounds like a good gig. If the new airplane still keeps him less than 15 days per month I would not be to aggressive. This is more than likely something I might make as a proposal at my next budget meeting. I would not go pound on my chest as a group of three (acting like a union) and demand more money. Most CEO's who work endless hours or even CFO's like ours who work 50-60 hours per week will not be very sympathetic to your plight. Most of them also know how many pilots are on the street and that you can be replaced VERY quickly. I dont care what kind of aircraft you fly, someone is ready and willing to fly it tomorrow. Show them multiple options. A Budget with more pay per pilot or a dedicated budget for contract pilots. If he is Chief Pilot, he also needs to make the Boss understand how much more work managing the 2nd aircraft requires and that he might not be able to carry his/her full flight load. All needs to be done tactfully and professionally.

Times are getting tough, if he has a flight department in expansion mode, I might be a good team player (if I am not getting abused) and enjoy the ride. Many departments are going the other way. If changing from 10 days per month to 12 days per month makes me more secure, sign me up.

Just food for thought.