multiengine.net

[The_Russian]

If it is considered unsafe for an SIC to have 250 hours TT for a 121 operation. Why is it considered safe for a CFI to have only 250 hours teaching primary students how to fly?

If your arguement that ability, knowledge, and SA are poor in low time pilots. Why should they be allow to teach others initial aircraft operation with no "real world" experience under their belt? What would the public say about this?

Did your career begin with this path? Did you take the time to think that your 10 dollar an hour CFI job was taking instructor positions from career CFI's that are attempting to make a real living?

Remember: "Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself."

 

[AerroMatt]

Exellents posts, Russian. I'll stick by what I posted earlier. Would love to discuss your ideas about this subject in person over an adult beverage. :beer:

I agree with you that a pilot with good SA is GOLD! Wish I could find more of them...

Matt

 

[agpilot34]

I agree with what you're saying about experience, and quality of time versus quantity. On those points, we are in total agreement. BUT I do know several guys who are just naturally gifted aviators, and have been ever since they started flying. A couple of them could fly circles around guys with 2000 hrs when they barely had their commercial multi and instrument ratings. If someone like that came to you looking for a job, exhibited great piloting skills, decision making ability, good judgement, and projected themselves with a professional attitude, are you saying you wouldnt hire them or at least give them a chance JUST because of where and how they got their time? I dotn agree with the PFT scams either, but this particular operation just doesnt strike me as being the same thing. I've flown with guys who pencil whipped their logbooks in order to get a job, and I can spot them a mile away. But if a guy comes to me genuinely seeking a job, and proves to me he can fly, use good judgement, and make good decisions, I just dont see not at least considering him just because of the method he used to build his time.

"Geez! You need to take a break, dude!" NAH, I like it like that... fast and furious! It's really not as bad as it sounds, if you really like to fly! No, your not THAT much of an old fart, because I soloed in '89, got my commercial in '91 and started flying ag. Did that for four years, until the operator I was working for closed up shop, then I got out of flying for a few years. Got back into it in '98 and have been flying patrol ops ever since. If you're an old fart, I'm not TOO far behind you. Sounds like you've got lots of good experience to back you up.:beer:

 

[The_Russian]

Exellents posts, Russian. I'll stick by what I posted earlier. Would love to discuss your ideas about this subject in person over an adult beverage. :beer:

I agree with you that a pilot with good SA is GOLD! Wish I could find more of them...

Matt

Thanks. You handle this tough subject well. Let's get wasted!

 

[John2375]

Well I pretty much anticipated this war breaking out, however I was hoping somebody who'd DONE the program would chime in, either on the board or in a private message to tell me their experiences.

There is a big difference between PFJ (which I do NOT support) and this. A PFJ program takes away a job from somebody, such as Gulfstream or Key Lime Air.
This program however, isn't offering the job to anybody. I should also mention that they told me you fly left-seat, fwiw.
However, this would be PFJ if they advertised the position for hire but when no one was around to do so, allowed people to pay for the position.
That's not the case here. They're not offering any jobs to anyone. They are offering 100 hours of twin-time for cheap, getting what they want out of it (extra ca$h and another pilot onboard) and you're getting what you want (quality twin time for CHEAP) And it IS quality - it's not drilling holes in the sky aimlessly watching the Hobbs meter tick away - you're doing quality flying with a purpose.
It's a win-win-win situation. You win, cuz you get 100 hours of twintime at a great rate and advance your career ambitions, and they win, cuz they make some money and keep their business going.

EVERYONE on these forums are so pro-"CFI is the only way to go unless you're military" it's SICK> One day you guys will realize not all people can or want to go the same route.
I figured this response would happen but was still hoping somebody would have done the program and would give some details.. But i AM glad that there are people out there, and in here, who do agree with me

 

[agpilot34]

Well I pretty much anticipated this war breaking out, however I was hoping somebody who'd DONE the program would chime in, either on the board or in a private message to tell me their experiences.

There is a big difference between PFJ (which I do NOT support) and this. A PFJ program takes away a job from somebody, such as Gulfstream or Key Lime Air.
This program however, isn't offering the job to anybody. I should also mention that they told me you fly left-seat, fwiw.
However, this would be PFJ if they advertised the position for hire but when no one was around to do so, allowed people to pay for the position.
That's not the case here. They're not offering any jobs to anyone. They are offering 100 hours of twin-time for cheap, getting what they want out of it (extra ca$h and another pilot onboard) and you're getting what you want (quality twin time for CHEAP) And it IS quality - it's not drilling holes in the sky aimlessly watching the Hobbs meter tick away - you're doing quality flying with a purpose.
It's a win-win-win situation. You win, cuz you get 100 hours of twintime at a great rate and advance your career ambitions, and they win, cuz they make some money and keep their business going.

EVERYONE on these forums are so pro-"CFI is the only way to go unless you're military" it's SICK> One day you guys will realize not all people can or want to go the same route.
I figured this response would happen but was still hoping somebody would have done the program and would give some details.. But i AM glad that there are people out there, and in here, who do agree with me

Tell you what, you might try PMing a guy that posts on here (or used to) that goes by LSU fan. He actually was flying for these guys (not through the time building program, but was an employed pilot with them) and can probably give you better info than anyone here. If you cant get a response by PM, PM me and I"ll give you his number. I'm sure he wouldnt mind giving you some REAL information about this program.

 

[The_Russian]

A PFJ program takes away a job from somebody, such as Gulfstream or Key Lime Air.

Gulfstream is neither PFT or PFJ. Please, get your facts staight before posting about my company.

 

[John2375]

Then why is everyone so up in arms at the mere MENTION of Gulfstream?? Please enlighten me..

 

[JettBoii]

Sweet Dancing Jehovah,
John, if you would like information PM me; I flew there an an employed pilot for three years. If you are interested in getting out of you sheltered FBO flying routine then this is something you might be interested in pursuing. Your testicles might even descend after completing your block time. You might even actually become a beerdrinking man instead of some bookreading, regulation reciting little biotch who thinks they know everything like the rest of the "pilots" that post on here.

Their planes are better maintained than 3M's Gulfstream fleet; you could eat off the hangar floor. You might even actully learn to "fly" a multiengine plane; manage fuel and deal with bad weather. It will help you and your flying skills in the long run. The PA30 is no slouch; hard plane to fly and even harder to land.

Good luck...if you fly there you won't regret it.

 

[AerroMatt]

Far 61.51

TimeOff, here's the regs pertaining to what can be logged as PIC:

"FAR61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor."

Now according to this, since Safety Pilot is not mentioned here, anyone who logs PIC time as a safety pilot is NOT legal.

FWIW, Here is another thread to research regarding how part 121 operators review logbooks, PIC time etc.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=92290

Several posts mention the fact that if you falsify your logs and the airline decideds to check them, you may be fired outright, and the FAA may have your certificates REVOKED. Something to keep in mind when thinking about how all this stuff gets logged.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

A safety pilot is required when the other pilot is under the hood. Perfectly legal to log it as PIC.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

AerroMatt-

The arrangement that this safety pilot PIC is that the safety pilot is the designated PIC of the flight and logs such from chock to chock. The person flying the plane is not the PIC but rather a passenger until he/she puts on the foggles at 500' and begins to manipulate the controls under the hood as the sole manipulator. Therefore, one pilot (safety pilot) logs PIC as the acting PIC and the person flying under the hood will log PIC as the sole manipulator. The person logging PIC theoretically should have a shorter total flight time since they are technically only to log while under the hood and flying as sole manipulator.

 

[gfvalvo]

.
.
That aside, these bottoms feeders are just scamming anyone who pays them for time they cannot legally log!

FAR 61.51 (in part)
"Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges"


So, let's see: Part 91, Sole Manipulator of the controls holds ME rating. Hmmm.... sounds like logable PIC time to me. Regs don't say anything about left vs right seat.

 

[nosehair]

TimeOff, here's the regs pertaining to what can be logged as PIC:

"FAR61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor."

Now according to this, since Safety Pilot is not mentioned here, anyone who logs PIC time as a safety pilot is NOT legal.

AeroMatt, (iii) in your above quoted reg is the part of that reg that allows a safety pilot to be a "required crewmember". That position can be designated as SIC or PIC, as agreed upon by the two pilots. Being designated as PIC means you are acting as PIC of a required 2 crew operation, and can therefor log it as PIC. You are also responsible for the flight. Violations will be yours.
If the safety pilot elects to not be PIC, and only a pair of outside eyes for the PIC under the hood, then logging PIC would not be legal, and violations would go to the PIC under the hood.

 

[John2375]

SO.. if one were to do the multiengine.net program for 100 hours, I can log that as 100 hours PIC, right? Since I would be the sole-manipulator (the other guy is doing the surveys/inspections) and I'm a multi-engine rated pilot..
Right?
imp: