multiengine instrument: dead engine questions

[clumpinglitter]

Now, aside from the obvious reasons for turning into the good engine...why does it seem like people are insistant upon either one way or the other?

Opinions? Personal experiences?

I wasn't told to turn either way -- just do whatever it takes. This makes me wonder, however, if the instructor/examiner decides which engine to fail based on what way you'll be turning to circle to land.

-C.

 

[clumpinglitter]

Thanks, everyone. Here's what I got, generally:

1. When an engine fails, level the wings and do a "wings level, ball centered" callout. Get stabilized and then go through the "engine out" routine.
2. Unless inside the FAF, do clean up the airplane. This is what my instructor says as well, but I'm unsure about it, since I've seen that pitching for blueline can make the airplane gain as much as 500 feet.
3. Stay at blue line when flying level. If descending, it's ok to go somewhat faster than blue line.
4. Use your best guess as to how to descend -- use DME or timing to plan. On a normal instrument approach, I like to use groundspeed to figure out how fast to descend to get to a nice visual descent point, so I'll try to keep using that for the single-engine approach.

This is all pretty much what my instructor has said, but it helps to get more opinions and think through it. I have another lesson today, so we'll see ...

-C.

 

[minitour]

I wasn't told to turn either way -- just do whatever it takes. This makes me wonder, however, if the instructor/examiner decides which engine to fail based on what way you'll be turning to circle to land.

-C.

I dunno about deciding which side to kill based on the approach/landing.

For my CMEL, I had a HARD right crosswind and he killed the right side.

What a pain that was.

-mini

PS
Thanks for the info about the turn...I didnt figure it was a big deal...whatever it takes.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Thanks, everyone. Here's what I got, generally:

1. When an engine fails, level the wings and do a "wings level, ball centered" callout. Get stabilized and then go through the "engine out" routine.
2. Unless inside the FAF, do clean up the airplane. This is what my instructor says as well, but I'm unsure about it, since I've seen that pitching for blueline can make the airplane gain as much as 500 feet.
3. Stay at blue line when flying level. If descending, it's ok to go somewhat faster than blue line.
4. Use your best guess as to how to descend -- use DME or timing to plan. On a normal instrument approach, I like to use groundspeed to figure out how fast to descend to get to a nice visual descent point, so I'll try to keep using that for the single-engine approach.

This is all pretty much what my instructor has said, but it helps to get more opinions and think through it. I have another lesson today, so we'll see ...

-C.

IMO, there is no reason to SLOW to blueline prior to landing just to be at blueline. Blueline is what you use when full throttle on the good engine is necessary for the current operation (assuming MGW, of course). Climbing, struggling to maintain altitude, stuff like that. If you gain 500 feet just to get to blueline, it's not the appropriate speed.

Remember, too, that constant airspeed is one of the criteria in the PTS...gaining knots in the descent and slowing back to blueline on a NP approach can cause a bust.

As far as gear and flaps, I put the gear down at the "normal" spots if at all possible...I'll shoot approaches with reduced/delayed flaps, but changing from normal procedure on the gear during an emergency is a good way to land gear up. IOW, keep it as normal as possible.

It's been a while since I got my whopping 7 hours in a Dutchess, but the rule of thumb for most of the stuff I fly is only one less flap setting than would be used with both engines.

As far as the "under the hood" stuff, you might consider ignoring the ball...most people do when they fly anyway. If the wings are level, and there's no rotation of the DG (and if your scan gets far enough to look at the TC to see no turn), the ball is going to be centered. I'm a "needle-and-ball" guy myself, but I know so many people who can't/don't use the instrument that it becomes its own emergency if they have to look at it.

Fly safe!

David

 

[avbug]

An engine failure isn't an emergency; it's an abnormal operation (unless you're in a radial engine airplane, then it's a normal operation). Try to make as much of it as you can normal. Drop the gear at the normal time. If performance will allow, put your flaps down at the normal time. Make your radio calls, turns, turn directions, proceedures, callouts, cadence, etc, per normal. Request priority if you need it, take what precautions you need in accordance with your needs...but strive to do everything per your standard proceedure.

 

[SPilot]

"wings level, ball centered"

The ball in the inclonometer shouldn't be centered when you have an assymmetrical thrust situation. You should try to fly the airplane with minimal side slip. With assymmetrical thrust, wings level and ball centered, the airplane will be slipping due to the operating engine pulling the airplane slightly sideways. Therefore you should compensate by putting the ball slightly (approx. 1/2 the ball width) into the operating engine (more rudder pressure). And also as widely known, bank 3-5 degrees into the operating engine to use the horizontal component of lift to counteract the rotational effect resulting from the assymmetrical thrust.

If you've ever done drag demos, you'll appreciate a noticable difference in performance when flying the airplane "wings level, ball centered" versus "sideslip eliminated, bank slightly into operating engine". Vmc changes also, because you're utilizing more sources of counter-forces to maintain directional control - not just the rudder.

The ultimate proof and expedient method of understanding this, is by attaching the yaw string to the windshield and try for yourself.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The ball in the inclonometer shouldn't be centered when you have an assymmetrical thrust situation. You should try to fly the airplane with minimal side slip. With assymmetrical thrust, wings level and ball centered, the airplane will be slipping due to the operating engine pulling the airplane slightly sideways. Therefore you should compensate by putting the ball slightly (approx. 1/2 the ball width) into the operating engine (more rudder pressure). And also as widely known, bank 3-5 degrees into the operating engine to use the horizontal component of lift to counteract the rotational effect resulting from the assymmetrical thrust.

If you've ever done drag demos, you'll appreciate a noticable difference in performance when flying the airplane "wings level, ball centered" versus "sideslip eliminated, bank slightly into operating engine". Vmc changes also, because you're utilizing more sources of counter-forces to maintain directional control - not just the rudder.

The ultimate proof and expedient method of understanding this, is by attaching the yaw string to the windshield and try for yourself.

Spilot: With all due respect, what you have written here is really not correct. First, when an engine fails it is most important to increase to full power, level the wings, center the ball and hold heading. The ball needs to be centered in order to be sure of just which engine has failed using the dead foot dead engine method. Allowing the ball to be displaced during this procedure can result in a misidentification of which engine has failed. Second, once the inoperative engine is determined and secured then the "zero side slip" technique may be used if you think that will enhance performance. Personally my experience is that the "zero side slip" technique doesn't do much of anything for performance but it does give your leg a rest. And finally, you have indicated that by attaching a yaw string to the windshield that this will show how important it is to use "zero side slip." This statement makes me wonder if you have ever really done this yourself or just looked at drawings in manuals. I have personally done this yaw string test many times and it really shows no difference in deflection with an engine out (feathered) and the ball centered or with the ball displaced half a ball width.

Placebo effect is a very powerful influence.

 

[nosehair]

When you're visual, it's natural to just react to the yaw, and I have no problem keeping my heading pegged.

Heading! Heading! Heading! The Heading Indicator is the instrument that replaces your visual of the nose. Heading is the most important instrument to control. Heading, altitude, & airspeed; those are the only 3 we have to control, and we should usually prioritize them in that order. If the Heading stays constant, the wings stay level. If the wings stay level, the altitude is more likely to stay level. In a constant power-constant pitch situation, the airspeed remains constant, so that reduces your scan to 2 instruments: Heading and Altitude.

The only point I'm making is that you should pay more attention to Heading.
The whole point of the Instrument Reference-Visual Reference method of learning to fly is that you should be attuned to automatically going to Heading Indicator when you lose visual reference to straight flight.

When you initially lose an engine, the heading change won't lie.
Sometimes, in turbulent air (natural or pilot imposed), the ball is bouncing around so that it can be confusing. Wait until you have stabilized Heading before you consult the ball.

 

[gkrangers]

In my limited experience, the yaw string does do a good job of displaying zero side slip.

 

[MauleSkinner]

In my limited experience, the yaw string does do a good job of displaying zero side slip.

...but unfortunately Undaunted's experience seems to override the rest of ours

Fly safe!

David