Multi-time sharing. . .any do's and don'ts?

[check6]

I'm thinking of getting involved in a multi-time sharing deal with a friend of mine. Any suggestions? Would this investment help me?

 

[Ralgha]

What are the details of the "sharing"? Safety pilot? Some airlines are starting to ignore safety pilot time toward meeting their minimums.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Don't log, like I did, 2.0 hours of total time and multi time and one hour of PIC.

 

[W.S.C.O.D.]

What do you mean by "multi-time sharing"?

It may be you could get your MEI?

I think about 100 hrs multi pic would get u into an RJ.

 

[Swass]

If you're thinking of buying, check with FN FAL on what not to do and how to cover your ass with partners. He's been down that road.

 

[FN FAL]

If you're thinking of buying, check with FN FAL on what not to do and how to cover your ass with partners. He's been down that road.

It was a windy path, with lots of rolling hills, pot holes and many thieves waiting along the way.

I was just thinking about this one yesterday, as I was mulling over the shoulda coulda wouldas on that twin cessna partnership I was involved in. (imagine that, that thing has been gone for over 5 years and I still think of it...imagine side show bob shudder, here.)

Here's something that will possibly protect you...form an LLC for yourself and have your partners form one for themselves. Draft up a partnership agreement on the plane and form a separate LLC for that. You want to structure separation, so that in the event of a lawsuit or financial problems, it can be plainly seen who is who and what is what.

And I'll tell you why...

We financed our twin in our own names...Tom, Bob and Barney. When the S.H.T.F., the bank and the courts didn't care about gentleman's agreements, made over beers the night before the loan papers were signed.

If you have three names on the loan and two guys leave you holding the bag, the bank is going to want ALL of the money from the guy left standing. It's not their responsiblity to determine 1/3 or 1/2 owed.

You need to go into the bank with a partnership agreement and structured incorporation documents, so that if something bad happens, the bill is divided evenly. If you have to, secure three separate loans...that way each person or "corporation" has to take care of their own end, when things go south.

In addition, never partner with anyone on an airplane, that you wish to keep as a friend after the partnership is dissolved. Trust me on this one.

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

If you're looking for a cheap way to build your multi-engine time, do what some guys I know did - Get a group of 4 people together, go rent a 4-seat light twin, go fly around, swap seats from time to time, split the cost 4 ways, and each log it all as multi PIC.

These guys are all RJ captains now.

Amazing what a little dishonesty will get you, huh?

In all seriousness though, if you're trying to build multi time, try to hook up with an MEI...that's the only legal way for two pilots to log multi time that I can think of (in an airplane that doesn't require two pilots). I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any tricks up their sleeve, that doesn't involve being a safety pilot.

 

[Ralgha]

In all seriousness though, if you're trying to build multi time, try to hook up with an MEI...that's the only legal way for two pilots to log multi time that I can think of (in an airplane that doesn't require two pilots).

Unless you're actually giving/receiving instruction, it's not legal. People have gotten in serious trouble for this.

 

[vclean]

Are you buying or renting?

 

[nosehair]

In all seriousness though, if you're trying to build multi time, try to hook up with an MEI...that's the only legal way for two pilots to log multi time that I can think of (in an airplane that doesn't require two pilots). I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any tricks up their sleeve, that doesn't involve being a safety pilot.

Be careful on using an MEI to log a whole bunch of time that is obviously "double-logging". Besides the fact that airline interviewers can sniff that out (and that doesn't take a rocket science brain), I remember a thread some time ago that said a couple of MEI's had their certificates revoked for double logging dual that is not actually flight training. That was like a couple hundred hours or something.
Your mileage may vary.

 

[FN FAL]

If you're looking for a cheap way to build your multi-engine time...

Yes, renting is great. It looks expensive up front, but you can find ways to offset the costs by splitting it with friends or doing legitimate part 91 trips.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any tricks up their sleeve, that doesn't involve being a safety pilot.

No tricks needed. It's not that hard to find lawful things to do with a rented twin engine plane.

Lot's of guys and girls have to hold down a real "day" job while they are time building. One way, would be to offer your sevices to your employer. I built a ton of time volunteering to go on working field service trips for my employer. That meant that the flying was incidental to business.

They re-embursed me for the hours on the owned twin and paid the rental on any rental aircraft that I used for company purposes. Plus, I got paid! Since we were on company time, traveling for company purpose, I got my hourly wages while on the company clock.

Another way I built time, was to get my skydiving friends together and fly to skydiving boogies. We went to Florida, Iowa, Illinois, Beckley WV on many repeat trips. We split costs on rental twins and we split costs on owned twin. Since the pilot and passengers were all on the same "mission", this is a normal part 91 trip.

It may be hard to get employers or friends to go with you on trips, but it can be done...the best thing you can do is get checked out in that rental twin and invest some time getting proficient. Once you make the first trip and your friends and co-workers see how fun and safe this mode of travel can be, you might just find yourself making a few more trips down the road.

I had one daytime employer, that flat out refused to ride with me in the twin...and I don't blame him either, it's his decision. But it sure was funny to take him to the airport in the company van and drop him off...only to be wrenching on a machine back at the shop and see his sad face coming back into the shop after his flight got cancelled.

I think it really bugged him that I would be snickering under my breath as he walked back upstairs to office, knowing that a future customer had a choice of vendors and he wasn't there to plead his case. Hahaha...looks like the daughter is going to have to go off to college in the Miata instead of the Beemer, DUDE!

 

[check6]

Renting. . .

Yeah. . .we're renting. My buddy mentioned we could both log PIC if one was a safety pilot, but I raised the caution flag and said I wasn't sure if that was possible. It could be fun. The details have yet to be arranged.

 

[Ralgha]

Yeah. . .we're renting. My buddy mentioned we could both log PIC if one was a safety pilot, but I raised the caution flag and said I wasn't sure if that was possible. It could be fun. The details have yet to be arranged.

Yes it's possible and legal, but as I said before, some airlines are not counting it anymore.

 

[apcooper]

Yes it's possible and legal, but as I said before, some airlines are not counting it anymore.

I've never heard of regionals or 135's having a problem with it. Which in particular do? I only thought the majors require PIC to be by the pilot who signed for the aircraft but have heard nothing of regional/cargo/charters having a gripe with it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How is ALL ATPS for getting a CFI job to build multi time?

 

[memooch]

What are the details of the "sharing"? Safety pilot? Some airlines are starting to ignore safety pilot time toward meeting their minimums.

What airlines?

 

[check6]

"SHARING"

Sharing. . .what a wonderful thing. The only "sharing" that would be going on would be the cost of it, not the time. That would be dishonest.