Multi-engine time building

[Steve]

Just have a quick question for the experts. Is certain time in some light twins as valuable as in others? I am thinking of buying a twin in the future to build time. I have narrowed it down to a Cessna 310,337 or piper apache. Does anyone have any comments on any of these planes? I've heard the 337 is quite cheap to buy and maintain and easy to fly. Any opinions on it?

 

[SDdriver]

Light twins

Just my opinion,

I like the 310, some of the older ones are little rockets. Lots of good training in learing how to slow down from a ways out. The light twin I got the most hours in as a young pilot was the 58 Baron. Loved that little plane!! Really great flying airplane. I know that they are pretty expensive though, so that might not be in your budget. If you want the best experience I would go with something that has at leat 300 horses a side..I have flown twins like the dutches and they are just really under powered and kinda whimpy, but with 300 a side you are talking money. I guess it just depends if you want just multi time cheap, or if you want to have a really good time and get some good quality multi time. Remember the 310 or the Baron cruise around 180kts, so you can do some nice traveling in those things, pretty good useful loads also. Anyway, hope it gave a little insight, like I said just my opinion...I guess I will always favor the Baron, I just feel like it is a little hot rod.

Fly safe and good luck.

 

[aggiepilot87]

I'd think -337 time would be about as useless as glider time (joking!). Seriously, centerline thrust multi sure doesn't sound like a good item for building experience and multi time for a flying job.

If you're your financial situation is anywhere near mine, I'd go with the Apache. If it's just you and another person flying around the country building time, it's one of your most economical choices. -310's have more expensive engines (much more, depending on the year model). They burn more gas too.

As for building time in a Baron... Ohhhh-K. Someone's got some serious money to burn, if that's the case.

IMVHO, (non-centerline thrust) multi time is multi time when pt 91 and non-turbine. Dutchess, Seminole, -310, Seneca, Baron... they're all pretty comparable in the log book. If you need non-whimpy multi, get some PIC in a Cheyenne or King Air. That only runs ~$500-1000/hr.

 

[Timebuilder]

Those folks are giving good advice, Steve.

If money is no object (within reason) a baron or a 310 are great choices. The 310 idles like a Corvette, but used parts are becoming harder to find. I know this because a corporate flight department on my old field used a whole fleet of 310's, and they flew every night. They're being phased out for the faster/higher/newer TBM 700 with the PT-6 up front.

Truthfully, multi time is multi time in the logbook, as long as it isn't centerline thrust ("sky disaster") time. That time would only be useful to a skymaster operator.

On the cheap, an apache, aztec (a little more expensive) a seneca 1, or a seminole are probably the most reasonable choices. There is another argument regarding counter rotating engine type versus conventional twin arangement, but I don't see it come up very often. I wouldn't worry about that.

Whatever you do, take the time to research this. There is a whole slew of AD's on the Apache, and they could turn a "good deal" into a nightmare. Have an A&P that you know and trust do a thorough prepurchase inspection, and advise you on the cost of recurrent AD's and annuals, damage history, etc.

I'd find two or three other people and form a club. Discuss liability with a good aviation attorney. Get the right insurance. Protect yourself with a corporation.

Then, and only then, move ahead.

 

[avbug]

I'd like to repeat my staple advice to never build time, but only build experience. There's a difference.

Older 310's are a good bet; have it examined closely before you buy. Pay particular attention to corrosion issues with the over-wing exhaust (wing, flap well and track area, and flaps), to the entire nose-gear assembly (trunion assy), and the engine mounting trays (cracks). Overall good airplanes, easy to work on. Make sure the door isn't tweaked; a royal pain when that happens, and you will never get it where you want it once that happens.

For the money, a travelaire is hard to beat. You can still get them in the low fifties, and they're as basic and honest an airplane as you can find.

 

[Timebuilder]

True.

Hopefully, the time you spend in the airplane will help you to get the experience you need.

 

[Snakum]

Just $.02 from someone researching a twin for the company ...

... when it comes to initial outlay, maintenance $, insurance $, and user friendliness ... we found an older twin Commander 560 was a BEST BUY. You'd need to find one that's been meticulously maintained with low AF and E times, though.

Minh

 

[avbug]

Make sure the wing AD is done if you go that route, don't get one that's been converted to Skydrol, and make sure the engines are current. You'll get reduced TBO (not a factor unless you want to run the airplane that long), and parts can be more expensive. The commanders are good airplanes, however.

 

[bobbysamd]

Regular Multi Time v. Centerline Thrust

The 310 is a totally cool airplane; anyone remember the TV show, "Sky King," from the '50s? Sky King flew 310s after he began the series flying Bamboo Bombers.

Travelair is a cool airplane; I had a Riddle student who had his own. He had to train the in Seminoles, though. I'd bet he had more multi time than most of the instructors. A Twin Beech is also cool; the Army flew them for a time in the 50s.

As a practical matter, though, you'll be hit less in the pocketbook if you buy a block of Seminole or Seneca, or something like that. It's all the same to the commuters. Also, you don't just want to bore holes. If you can take the airplane on IFR cross countries and into (safe) actual, you will have gotten value for your money.

I agree with the above regarding push-me-pull-you Cessnas. I hear they're easy to fly and land as easily as a 182. But, airlines will count off for the time. Ask any T-38, F-14 or F-15 pilot about centerline thrust appearing on an airline app.

Good luck with your flying.