Multi Commercial

[minitour]

There's no solo required for multi commercial,

I see you underlined it, but it's cheaper to bring an instructor buddy along and split the costs.

He said 10 in a twin, I suppose you could do the 20 [(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least]— in a SE plane, since it doesn't say the commercial instruction needs to be in a twin in §61.127(b)(2), but just that you need 10 hours in a twin for the comm multi rating.

aaaaaaah...now that may work for me. Gotcha.

-mini

...and Thanks!

 

[AC560]

(3) is the paragraph listing the "training" that needs to be done.

Yes according to paragraph 3 you need 20hrs of training in the areas of operation listed in Sec 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least--

(ii) 10hrs of training in a multiengine airplane

This means that of that 20 hours of training only 10 hours need be in a multiengine plane (5 of which need to be IFR training), the other 10 could be ground instruction. Then you jump to paragraph 4 which says you need 10 hours solo or PIC with instructor.

You may need 30hrs (20 in paragraph 3 and 10 in paragraph 4) but only 20 has to be flying, the other 10 can come from ground instruction. But it only specifies 20hrs of twin flight time required.

 

[Metro752]

edited because of misinterpretation of regulation.

 

[minitour]

Y
You may need 30hrs (20 in paragraph 3 and 10 in paragraph 4) but only 20 has to be flying, the other 10 can come from ground instruction. But it only specifies 20hrs of twin flight time required.

I don't buy that. Supbart (b) of 61.129 is specifying "flight time" required (aeronautical experience) for a Commercial Pilot Certificate with Multi-Engine rating. You need at least 250 hours of "flight time" of which at least 20 must be instruction and 10 must be solo.

I'll buy that some of the "training" does not have to be done in a multiengine airplane, but I can't see where you're getting that some of it can be ground training. Unless you're referring to an approved sim or FTD?

Knowledge training (ground) would be covered by part 61.125.

-mini

 

[AC560]

I don't buy that. Supbart (b) of 61.129 is specifying "flight time"

61.129(b)(3) and its subparts are the key. It specifies 20hrs of training in the areas of 61.127(b)(2) which must include at least 10hrs of multi flight time. If you look at 61.127(b) you will see things like pre-flight preparation, preflight procedures, etc. which obviously is not going to be trained in the air. So again you need 20hrs of training on the areas in 61.127(b)(2) which again must include at minimum of 10hrs in an airplane and the other stuff covered after the phrase at least in 61.129(b)(3)

You need at least 250 hours of "flight time"

You need 200hrs of "flight time", the other 50 can come from a simulator. This is actual a question on the current commercial written.

I'll buy that some of the "training" does not have to be done in a multiengine airplane,

The two sections are almost identical so I think that is why you are missing what I am talking about.

Read 61.129(b)(3) see that it says 20hrs of training in the areas of 61.127(b)(2) if you refer to that part you see items other then flight time which are required. It further places the stipulation of what that 20hrs must be made up with at minimum with the statement "that includes at least" and then lists those minimums in (i)-(v).

Think about it why would it say you need 20hrs of training (notice it doesn't say flight time) and then say that includes at least and then list a smaller flight time number then 20 if it was talking strictly about flight time?

 

[minitour]

61.129 is Aeronautical Experience - What flight (or simulator) times you must have.

61.127 is Flight Proficiency - What you have to learn how to do in the airplane.

61.125 is Aeronautical Knowledge - What you are required to know (ground school).

I don't think I've seen an applicant go to an examiner with 235 airplane hours and 15 "ground instruction" hours on Preflight preparation and preflight procedures as outlined in 61.127.

I agree with you that 61.129 doesn't specify all of the multi-engine flight time. Some can be done in a single. I don't agree with doing "preflight" preparation on the ground. It should come in an endorsement after a flight "Preflight preparation and procedures, short field takeoff, steep turns..."

-mini

 

[minitour]

You need 200hrs of "flight time", the other 50 can come from a simulator. This is actual a question on the current commercial written.

Okay it's "time as a pilot", not "flight time" my bad.

-mini

 

[Hikoushi]

61.129(4)(b)(3) (ii) 10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch propellers, or is turbine-powered

...seems to be specifically referring to the commercial complex-aircraft training requirements, giving you the option to do the rest of the 20 hours of training in a non-complex twin (could happen, you never know!). The single-engine commercial requirements are the same. An initial commercial applicant in a SINGLE ENGINE airplane could technically do their training in a fixed-gear Piper Warrior (for example) plus 10 hours in a retractable (say an Arrow), then split the checkride into 2 flights, doing everything in the Warrior except for one or two turns in the pattern in the complex airplane to demonstrate competency. I've seen that done a couple of times, mostly due to airplane availability issues, etc. But, if the initial commercial is in a single, the minimum times need to be met in a single. Similarly, that 20 hours of training needs to be in a multi if the initial commercial is in a multi, since 61.127 (b) (2)specifically refers to multiengine airplanes.