MU2 Question.

[leardrivr]

Hi all,
Since my husband was the one killed in the MU2 out here in Denver a few weeks ago the title of this thread naturally caught my eye.

After reading all of your posts, I felt compelled to give you a few of the details that I do know about what happened that night.

First, he was heavy...full load, packed to the gills, and had an SIC/trainee with him. Second, he was even heavier because he had full fuel due to bad weather in SLC that night. Third, he was 3 for 3 as far as flying conditions - low, slow & heavy, bad combination. Fourth, we are assuming that his bad engine was totally shut down, not feathered, shut down, based on the conversation that he had with the tower.

Our initial report from the NTSB was that he made an about face for the runway that he took off from (17/35), overshot the centerline, and was either trying to correct his heading or change heading to make the diagonal runway (28). The tower controllers reported seeing his landing lights suddenly point toward the ground and then disappear. We still don't know which engine was shut down.

The entire time he flew that plane he complained about the nonexistence of ailerons and the difficulty of not having solid roll control. He often spoke of the difficulty in handling it during crosswind landings, and of not ever being able to 'grease one on' when landing. I'm only a private pilot, but my gut feeling is that because he was so low and slow, he got into a flat spin when trying to turn that monster around.

If there are any high time MU2 guys out there, I would really welcome your thoughts on this aircraft. The more I learn about it, the more I hate it.

Carrie Krysiak

Well let me start out buy expressing my condolences to you and your family. You are right on the money here. I would generally rotate the MU-2 around 100-110 knots. From that point to about 170 knots in the climb was always a nervous time. This airplane has horrible performance low and slow. Once your established in the en-route climb she is a good ship. Combined a heavy load with high density atmosphere and toss in a unfeathered propeller. Well a good outcome was unlikely even if he tried to fly straight ahead. I lost a good freind and great aviator in the mits on march 25 2004. We still not sure what happened. The ntsb remarks about ice in the report but we know better than that. He was on top of the ice. We both have so much time in the mits I know he would not just sit in the ice and stall the aircraft. Any way alot of these aircraft have just fallen from the sky! Take from that what you will. I have a love hate relationship with the bitch. Mostly Hate Pm me if I can be of help in anyway. Take it easy.

 

[328dude]

SkyGirl: Sorry I didn't answer your PM, been very busy. Again, my condolences.

GIV and Sled are obviously very experienced MU-2 pilot's. I flew this aircraft for over 2 years doing what sled did and that was hauling checks around at night. MU-2 pilot's have thier own type of community and a loss of a fellow MU-2 pilot is always upsetting. Especially the check runners. I do miss that part of my life after have moving on.

Sled's post was right on the money with his factual information. The MU-2 is flown mostly by technique. Some of which you learn along the way. I don't however agree with some people's testimony that it is a huck of junk. These are typically your ride along pilot's with no real experience in the airplanes.

I'm glad Sled and GI were able to provide you with the information you were seeking and from somebody that knows what they are talking about.

The original post talked about not turning into the good engine on this thing. Well, I didnt have a choice after losing a propeller blade over HOU and it flew just dandy. Again, example of what I was talking about from inexperienced pilot's.

Best Regards,

328dude

 

[atldc9]

I flew the MU-2 for about 3 years in the northeast, hauling checks 4 nights a week. First off, it is a humbling airplane to learn. Until one gets the feel for it, it really is a handfull. It doesn't matter what kind of experience you have, flying the MU-2 kinda made you start over. I used to babysit people for a few weeks after they completed their training, and it was fun to watch them come along. The high time pilots would get so frustrated, pleading that they really could fly other airplanes. Anyone who has learned to fly the Mits will understand.

One analogy that I have found to be somewhat appropriate is that you really need to fly the MU-2 like a jet, as far as takeoff profile is concerned. All that piston twin stuff like 'mixtures, props, throttles forward, positive rate gear up, flaps up fix or feather' will kill you in a MU-2.

In the Marquise, you typically rotated around 110 kias, but blue line was 152 kias. In the event of an engine failure during takeoff, if you tried leveling off to wait for blue line, you might be a few miles down range at a very low altitude before you accelerated to blue line. If you brought the gear up on a Marquise on single engine it was around a 250 fpm loss of climb rate while the doors were cycling. Those doors are BIG! God forbid someone would touch the flaps. The Marquise had full span, double-slotted fowler flaps that incresed wing area 28% at takeoff settings. If you brought those up at the wrong time, forget it - you're done. Then there was the whole spoilers - trim aileron- zero sideslip issue. In the above engine failure scenario, trying to establish zero sidslip would just add spoiler drag to the dead engine side, further excaserbating the problem.

If you thought of the airplane like a FAR 25 jet, and flew a takeoff profile like that of FAR 25, then the thing flew fine during those engine failure on takeoff scenarios. The procedure would be something like, engine failure, rotate at 110, climb around 125, which was Vxse, kind of analogous to V2. Maintain directional control with the rudder, and use the trim ailerons to trim the control wheel to level. Climb out as configured wings level, until your acceleration altitude, then accelerate to blue line and clean it up.

It has been a few years since I flew the MU-2, so these are generalisms, but they should be in the ballpark.


Oh, and Howell Enterprise's in Smyrna, TN is the center of the MU-2 world. Reese Howell knows everything there is to know about the airplane, and gives flat out the best training available. No jab to Flightsafety, but they know who is better.

Those Flightsafety/TAS PROP seminars were always fun, though.

 

[328dude]

Reese was by far the best instructor I ever had when I wasen't going after a rating.

.357 lives on.

 

[surplus1]

I'm just curious. Does Howell Enterprises have an MU2 simulator or is the training given in the live airplane?

 

[bigD]

surplus - I just got done perusing their web site, and it appears that they do ground training, sim training, and training in the "customer's aircraft". The site doesn't mention the availability of an MU-2 to train in if you don't have one yourself.

I was just going to ask about this. The MU-2 has always been on the short list of planes I'd like to fly.

 

[bigD]

Oops...forgot to mention, the web site is

http://www.mu2b.com/

 

[Daveman]

Everything done in the aircraft at Howell Enterprises.
I have the same feelings towards Reese as does 328dude. He's the same in the air as on the ground. Great guy. Ron as well.
FlightSafety, I believe, has a sim which would be nice for things you couldn't train for in the plane. Asymetrical flaps for one. (HXD).
I would still rather train with Reese than fly a sim any day.

 

[Daveman]

that they do ground training, sim training, and training in the "customer's aircraft". The site doesn't mention the availability of an MU-2 to train in if you don't have one yourself.

Damm do I type slow. Well the sim must be new. My last checkride there was over three years ago. Good for them.
I think everyone I've ever met there was an owner, freightdog, or 135 guy.
Yep, you train in your plane.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Also been thru Reece's program. Great program...great guy. Reece is the Obi Wan of the MU2. After a couple of thousand hours in the Mitz I came to have a few differences of opinion on some operational issues, but Reece will teach you a way of approaching the airplane that will allow you to live long enough to 'think' you might know a better way. I have a great pic that Reece took of me with sun setting behind the left wing and the feathered left prop...just before we made that 'impossible turn into the failed engine'. Great memories.

BTW I believe PanAm just put an MU2 sim online last year since FlightSafety is no longer a vendor.

 

[atldc9]

GiV, I have the same picture!! LOL. Reece told me the feds questioned him about whether or not he was actually shutting down engines in flight, so he started taking pictures to prove it. Same goes for going out the window exits. Pretty cool pictures to look back on.

 

[328dude]

Ah, the window exit's. Now there's something Reese dosen't teach you. He marvels watching guys use diffrent techniques for getting in and out of the exit's.

There's the Spine Bender, or the Blue Jean Ripper or my favorite, the Shallow end of the Pool (Head first, which usually has you landing on your face).

Man, I miss those days. Nothing like making a hammock our of cargo nets to catch some Z'sss waiting for the Lear to show up.

 

[TIGV]

Here's my two cents worth:

I got over a grand in the Mu-Deuce, I hated it for the first 100 or so hours, the above posts are all correct, the aircraft for all intents and purposes is not an aircraft, it is a horizontal helicopter, it doesn't have wings, it has engine pylons, the performance loss on one engine is horifying enough to question this aircraft's certification criteria.

The MU-2 is a he11 of a machine only when both engines are operating, it will haul a load at high speed and is cheap to operate.

On one engine it is like Jekyll and Hyde and if the conditions aren't right and everything doesn't fall into place smoothly, an MU-2 on one engine is a horrible accident waiting to happen.

SKYGIRL1968, Words cannot express my horror at your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Sincerely:

Marc.

 

[Owen_FSD]

MU-2 For FS 2004 in development

Since this is an MU-2 post, I thought I'd show anyone interested a sneak peek at the MU-2 my company is developing as a high-quality addon aircraft for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. I spent some time at Howell Enterprises, Inc. last month to get aquainted with the aircraft. I've always found it to be an impressive aircraft.

Anyway, here is a hyperlink to a screen of the aircraft as I've got it now in the sim:
http://www.fsdinternational.net/betausers/images/mu2b.jpg

Best,

Owen

 

[Daveman]

.

Anyway, here is a hyperlink to a screen of the aircraft as I've got it now in the sim:
http://www.fsdinternational.net/betausers/images/mu2b.jpg

Best,
Owen

Notice the cockpit empty, he's reseting the 200 amp bus tie.

 

[jetdriven]

there was an MU-2 crash in Tulsa a few years ago. two high time pilots, with lots of time in type, flipped over and crashed right on the center of the runway during takeoff. the NTSB report was ambiguous at best, it only stated loss of control on takeoff.

I believe George Mall developed a fuel dump system for the airplane a couple years after that, to lower the wing loading and allow for a better chance after engine failure.

 

[Owen_FSD]

Notice the cockpit empty, he's reseting the 200 amp bus tie.

I haven't quite got to the point of putting people into the model.

 

[TIGV]

Still waiting to test for you Owen

Cheers.

Marc.