I'm buying into a Part 135 charter biz in the Midwest and we are looking at possibly buying a MU-2F. From what I hear they are tricky to fly. Is there any truth to this? How are they on maintenance and reliability? Any idea on what the hourly rate should be? Is it very hard to find a good shop to work on them? All comments from those who have flown or worked on the MU-2 would be greatly appreciated.
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MU-2F question and opinions needed
- Thread starter Steve
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Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
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- Jan 21, 2002
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- 4,574
I dont have much to say about MU2's -- but -- I would say...buy a King Air, people like to ride in King Airs, people DO NOT like to ride in MU2's. A few well publicized accidents did them in.
Only people who run that stuff now are freight ops. All that tells you is that they are cheap, fast, and noisy!!!
You were not clear...maybe you are doing freight...if so, sorry to waste your time!
Only people who run that stuff now are freight ops. All that tells you is that they are cheap, fast, and noisy!!!
You were not clear...maybe you are doing freight...if so, sorry to waste your time!
Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
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We operate a MU2. If it was our aircraft it would be GONE. Your biggest problems with the rice rocket is the insurance costs and requirements. Our insurance is more expensive than our Lears and Cheyenne 3. Plus the insurance requirements are quite stiff. While in the short run the MU2 seems to cheaper, there are other aircraft out there that are just a little more expensive but in the long run much cheaper to operate. The MU2s are cheap for a reason.
Have you looked at a King Air B100? Same cabin as a 200, but much less expensive to operate. Another option is a Merlin 3. Preferably a 3B. Some don't like the aircraft but it is fast, lots of reasonably price parts and efficent. And reasonably priced.
Have you looked at a King Air B100? Same cabin as a 200, but much less expensive to operate. Another option is a Merlin 3. Preferably a 3B. Some don't like the aircraft but it is fast, lots of reasonably price parts and efficent. And reasonably priced.
I've got time in a few different Models (F, L, N, and P) They aren't especially hard or tricky to fly. Where people get into trouble is that they try to fly it like a convention piston twin, and the MU2 is anything but that. You really have to fly it like a jet. As long as you go for formal initial and recurrent training, stick to proper procedures, you will be fine. It is a very tame airplane even single engine. Most people that bad mouth the airplane have never flown one so consider the source. However, the F model is kind of a POS. Underpowered, many have crappy panels, etc. We have an L model right now and had to take it off of Part 135 because we couldn't get high enough liablity coverage per seat on the insurance. PM me with any question's you have and I'll see if I can answer them for you.
EB
EB
Conquest Driver
Active member
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- Feb 22, 2003
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- 43
TPE331
We operate a Conquest II with at -10 conversion. It is a day in day out 300 Kt airplane above FL200, and the engines are very reliable. Also it climbs very well all the way up to the mid 20s, even in the summer. I don't know much about the MU2 but its powerplant(s) is one of the best in the industry.
CD
We operate a Conquest II with at -10 conversion. It is a day in day out 300 Kt airplane above FL200, and the engines are very reliable. Also it climbs very well all the way up to the mid 20s, even in the summer. I don't know much about the MU2 but its powerplant(s) is one of the best in the industry.
CD
Lrjtcaptain
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- 927
used to do some right seat mitsubishi work. We flew some very short 20 minute flights at 11000 and some longer flights up at 23-25,000.
The mu2 is a great airplane. Took a few flights to get me comfortable with the airplane. Its fairly light with some powerful tpe's. We had the marquise with the -10's. Very strong landing gear and performed well on hot days with high DA's. Its a very noisy airplane but the speed is there. Its a 290-300kt airplane pretty much every day of the week. I didn't like the spoilerons at all though. You get on final and start slowing up and you have a few seconds before it would respond to a roll. Never did quite like that aspect of the Mu2.
The Merlins are fun too. Very fast.
The B100, well have never flown one but havent heard a whole lot of good things about that plane.
It seems all the speed is in the Garrett. Pratts for some reason don't seem to get the speed the tpe's do. But noisy they are.
The mu2 is a great airplane. Took a few flights to get me comfortable with the airplane. Its fairly light with some powerful tpe's. We had the marquise with the -10's. Very strong landing gear and performed well on hot days with high DA's. Its a very noisy airplane but the speed is there. Its a 290-300kt airplane pretty much every day of the week. I didn't like the spoilerons at all though. You get on final and start slowing up and you have a few seconds before it would respond to a roll. Never did quite like that aspect of the Mu2.
The Merlins are fun too. Very fast.
The B100, well have never flown one but havent heard a whole lot of good things about that plane.
It seems all the speed is in the Garrett. Pratts for some reason don't seem to get the speed the tpe's do. But noisy they are.
Working at what I consider to be the MU-2 capital of the midwest (only turbine aircraft based at our field are MU-2s, 3 of em, out of less than 100 aircraft), I love em.
They are loud aircraft, but that's thanks to the Garrett engines. You'd run into the same thing with a Commander 690.
They do have more than their fair share of quirks, but the owners out here love them to death. They're rarely stuck in maintenance.
A few of the complaints I've heard: You have to get comfortable with the roll characteristics of the MU-2. The horizontal stabilizer sits right in the path of the exhaust from the engines, and they tend to need paint touched up more often than others. Incorrectly fueling an MU-2 will easily lead to the plane coming to rest on one gear and a tip tank. Learn to fuel it properly.
But, like I said, the owners love their planes and wouldn't trade them for anything that doesn't have a big fan hanging off the tail.
They are loud aircraft, but that's thanks to the Garrett engines. You'd run into the same thing with a Commander 690.
They do have more than their fair share of quirks, but the owners out here love them to death. They're rarely stuck in maintenance.
A few of the complaints I've heard: You have to get comfortable with the roll characteristics of the MU-2. The horizontal stabilizer sits right in the path of the exhaust from the engines, and they tend to need paint touched up more often than others. Incorrectly fueling an MU-2 will easily lead to the plane coming to rest on one gear and a tip tank. Learn to fuel it properly.
But, like I said, the owners love their planes and wouldn't trade them for anything that doesn't have a big fan hanging off the tail.
bigD
Well-known member
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- Jan 29, 2002
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The MU-2 is my favorite turboprop. I of course have no experience in them, but they look awesome. I also love how loud they are.
The running gag is that the Japanese built the MU-2 to get back at the US by killing us off one pilot at a time. But everyone I've talked to that flies them says the repuation is undeserved - you just need training in the thing, and to stay current.
I hope to have an opportunity to fly one someday.
The running gag is that the Japanese built the MU-2 to get back at the US by killing us off one pilot at a time. But everyone I've talked to that flies them says the repuation is undeserved - you just need training in the thing, and to stay current.
I hope to have an opportunity to fly one someday.
Swass
So long, America.....
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2003
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- 2,015
LrjetCptn, the reason you haven't heard too many good things about the B100 is that all the KA drivers tried to fly it like a KA. It doesn't fly like a 'real' KA. But is it still very forgiving. Look at the resale value.
The MU2 must be flown. It is not forgiving of mistakes or inattention. You must stay current. Yes, many of the pilots who fly it regularly love the aircraft. It is kind of like the Mooney or the Aerostar. There is a small group that love the aircraft and a big group that hate the aircraft and nothing in between.
The biggest problems as a charter operator concerning the MU2 is Insurance, Insurance and customer acceptance. But the biggest is insurance. When you can insure a Lear 20 for less money and lesser pilot qualifications, that tells you something.
Steve, you and your partners need to look at the whole picture before making that move with a MU2. Yes there are cheap T/Ps out there, but they are cheap for a reason. Look at all the reasons first before you jump.
The MU2 must be flown. It is not forgiving of mistakes or inattention. You must stay current. Yes, many of the pilots who fly it regularly love the aircraft. It is kind of like the Mooney or the Aerostar. There is a small group that love the aircraft and a big group that hate the aircraft and nothing in between.
The biggest problems as a charter operator concerning the MU2 is Insurance, Insurance and customer acceptance. But the biggest is insurance. When you can insure a Lear 20 for less money and lesser pilot qualifications, that tells you something.
Steve, you and your partners need to look at the whole picture before making that move with a MU2. Yes there are cheap T/Ps out there, but they are cheap for a reason. Look at all the reasons first before you jump.
nascarpilot
Member
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- Apr 7, 2003
- Posts
- 21
We'd been operating a nice 690B. Had one with the -5 engines and a -10. Were going to move to a 1000, but found a lease on a Citation I/SP for less $$.
We looked at the MU-2. Compared to the Commander, it was:
a. Harder to insure,
b. Smaller inside (Commander is bigger than MU-2, smaller than King Air...,
c. Commander had much better factory support.
With the -5 engines we burned 450 PPH at cruise (FL 230-250), and the -10s burned about the same at FL 290. Cruise on the -5 airplane was 265 KTAS all day long, and the -10 airplane was between 295 KTAS (Summer) and 305 KTAS (Winter).
Service Centers are all over the US. Easy to work on. Great flying airplanes. About the same price point as an MU-2 but in my opinion a more acceptable airplane for 135 work. IMHO.
We looked at the MU-2. Compared to the Commander, it was:
a. Harder to insure,
b. Smaller inside (Commander is bigger than MU-2, smaller than King Air...,
c. Commander had much better factory support.
With the -5 engines we burned 450 PPH at cruise (FL 230-250), and the -10s burned about the same at FL 290. Cruise on the -5 airplane was 265 KTAS all day long, and the -10 airplane was between 295 KTAS (Summer) and 305 KTAS (Winter).
Service Centers are all over the US. Easy to work on. Great flying airplanes. About the same price point as an MU-2 but in my opinion a more acceptable airplane for 135 work. IMHO.
2500 hrs MU2 time...loved every minute...great pilots airplane...built like a tank...I do think its reputation for being quirky is true but once you get used to it you'll love it...I think its a great choice if your in a market with little Kingair competition...passengers with a choice will choose the Beech every time! Good luck
Hopeless_in_GA
665 Neighbor of the Beast
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- Jul 18, 2002
- Posts
- 94
Fast Eddie
Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Posts
- 19
Have flown F,M,N, P, Marquis. Excellent a/c will do everything
book says. would highly recommend a flight safety checkout, air&
ground school. The Mu-2 has been put through some of the most
rigorous reviews by the FAA because of accident rate and came
thru fine. Many of accidents due to low-time improperly trained
pilots and other pilot error situations not specific to an MU-2.
Call international jet in Tulsa( ask for Bob Kidd) he is an authority
on a/c and specific serial #s.
book says. would highly recommend a flight safety checkout, air&
ground school. The Mu-2 has been put through some of the most
rigorous reviews by the FAA because of accident rate and came
thru fine. Many of accidents due to low-time improperly trained
pilots and other pilot error situations not specific to an MU-2.
Call international jet in Tulsa( ask for Bob Kidd) he is an authority
on a/c and specific serial #s.
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