Mountain Flying in Single Engines

[FL420]

It is not so bad in an F-16

Can't speak for the F-16 but believe me, down on the Colorado in an F-4 through the Grand Canyon, it can be.

 

[canyonflyer]

I do it for a living in a C206 & C210, and in a BN-2 Islander. It's certainly something learned by flying with those more experienced, and seeing things first-hand. There are a couple good books out there on mtn flying. I would suggest one by either Sparky Imersen or F.E. Potts. However, just reading a book is only a start, get someone that know's what they're doing and have them show you a few things.

 

[Piper877]

I don't have much experience flying in mountains but I did fly a 172P from New York to San Diego. I took the south route to Amarillo, then on to Albuqurque and then over to Prescott and then over to San Diego. It was quite the experience but be extremely careful and do the majority of your flying during the early morning hours. I experienced the worst turbulence I have ever seen going into ABQ. If you can go around each and every peak, then do it. Check density altitude every time you take off. Don't take performance for granted and don't necessarily top off your tanks. Good luck and be careful.

 

[avbug]

What's the difference between flying at 10,000' over flat Kansas prarie, and 10,000 in the rocky mountains?

None. The airplane doesn't know the difference. Neither would you, if you didn't look out the window.

"Mountain flying" is more a term used to sell books and instructional courses, than anything based in reality.

Any time you're flying, regardless of the weather, obstacles, terrain, or conditions, you should be exercising common sense. Flying around, among, over, or down mountains (never up) is no different.

The most important thing to remember is the water principle. Water flows downhill, and that's where you fly. Go where water goes. Downhill. Never up.

Several posters here have given good advice and counsel. If you're going to read a text, I highly recommend Sparky Imesons Mountain Flying Bible. If you get a chance to hear any of Sparky's lectures or read them, it's well worth your time. He's been a great source of safety and input for many years and was always a very good instructor.

Some people will tell you it's time to start considering your performance charts if you're flying in the mountains. I'll tell you you had better have been doing that already. Some will tell you to start considering this or that, or think about where you're going to make a forced landing...that's something that had better have been drilled into your head as a student before you soloed...flying in the mountains doesn't add to that or change it. It may reduce your performance and it may make the penalties for failing to use common sense more severe...but it's nothing different than you've done from day one.

Is making a forced landing possible while flying in the mountains? Of course it is. If you put yourself in a position where that's not possible, it isn't the fault of the mountain, it's yours...and barring specialized flying operations that require going into tight and unusual places...it's pilot and poor airmanship that puts you where you can't still execute a forced landing.

Carry a road map. Roads often follow the lowest places in the mountains, and will often show you the best routes through the mountains. Use the road map in conjunction with a sectional, and if you're going to be doing a lot of work in a particular area, USGS maps are better for accurate terrain depiction.

I spend a fair amount of time in some very cut up terrain, close to the terrain in single engine airplanes...and if you exercise a modicum of common sense while doing it, it's both enjoyable and safe. If it's not safe, then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, because your job as a pilot isn't to mitigate risk, but to eliminate it. You can do it by giving yourself alternatives, choosing different routes, picking the time and conditions of the flight, or even deciding not to fly...but if you find it's risky and dangerous, you're far out of your element and have exceeded your duty and limits as a PIC. Common sense prevents that; listen to the inner voice. It's usually right.

 

[johnpeace]

What's the difference between flying at 10,000' over flat Kansas prarie, and 10,000 in the rocky mountains?

Um, those giant obstructions that channel the winds at those altitudes into strong venturis and rotors, creating major lift/sink/turbulence that is oftentimes impenetrable in light aircraft?

Or maybe it's the difference of only having 1000' clearance between you and the ground?

Or maybe it's the VFR flight planning required to clear those obstructions and make sure you choose a pass that will either a) let you over/across the ridge or b) allow a turn back to lower terrain.

I did part of the CPA Mountain Flying Clinic last summer with midlifeflyer. It was a great learning experience and one of the most memorable days I've ever spent in an airplane.

You can read my account here

I would reccomend some training from a seasoned mountain pilot, along with Sparky's excellent book. There's a lot more that can get you killed in small airplanes in the mountains than in Kansas.

 

[midlifeflyer]

What's the difference between flying at 10,000' over flat Kansas prarie, and 10,000 in the rocky mountains?

None. The airplane doesn't know the difference. Neither would you, if you didn't look out the window.

"Mountain flying" is more a term used to sell books and instructional courses, than anything based in reality.

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's also potentially dangerous nonsense.

What's the difference between flying at 10,000' over flat Kansas prarie, and 10,000 in the rocky mountains?

None. The airplane doesn't know the difference. Neither would you, if you didn't look out the window.

"Mountain flying" is more a term used to sell books and instructional courses, than anything based in reality.

Any time you're flying, regardless of the weather, obstacles, terrain, or conditions, you should be exercising common sense. Flying around, among, over, or down mountains (never up) is no different.

So-called "common sense" is not the issue. =Knowledge= is. A 125 hour private pilot who has done all of his flying out of sea level airports in flat terrain has probably not been trained and has no knowledge base for the exercise of sense, common or otherwise.

That's really all the mountain courses (both ground and flight) really provide - knowledge that can form the basis for decent decision-making by the pilot. You might not see value in that, but to suggest there is "no difference" is potentially disastrous.

 

[Launchpad]

Always leave yourself an out, don't turn into something that you can't see the other side or turn around.

 

[papanovember]

Good info here. I was able to get some dual from Amy and learned an incredible amount of information.

http://www.canyonflying.com

 

[avbug]

So-called "common sense" is not the issue. =Knowledge= is. A 125 hour private pilot who has done all of his flying out of sea level airports in flat terrain has probably not been trained and has no knowledge base for the exercise of sense, common or otherwise.

That's really all the mountain courses (both ground and flight) really provide - knowledge that can form the basis for decent decision-making by the pilot. You might not see value in that, but to suggest there is "no difference" is potentially disastrous.

Therefore the issue isn't the mountain...it's the pilot who received inadequate training and the instructor who failed to provide it. The training necessary to exercise the common sense to check performance and properly plan is required as part of any pilot certificate, regardless of where one trains.

You don't happen to sell mountain flying training do you? Hmmm.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

avbug sir your wrong.

I would not trust a 125 PPL to fly me over the Colorado rockies in his C172. On the other hand, I would have no trouble flying with him from A to B in Florida on a VFR day.