Most unprofessional tower controllers

[bobs98tlr]

A few controllers at the DPA tower. They are pretty well known for being a$$holes. Theres a female controller and another male controller that ive noticed are pretty darn happy with there job. However there is an older fella that HATES to talked on the radio......sounds like he really needs a long vacation and a different job.

 

[PastFastMover]

Two different jobs completely. Not really comparable other than they both work in the aviation system so to speak. Now that the government ATC folks that are paid with tax payer money are making comparable or more pay than the private industry airline pilots does not make the jobs the same or equal. They are both completely different jobs. That is not good or bad but just the way it is.

 

[Alchemy]

hmmm, I've never had a problem with the IAH controllers, been based there for nearly a year. They can be vauge on their ground instructions sometimes....especially transitioning from north to south or south to north on the east side of the airport.

 

[zbwmy]

Atc

Has this seriously turned into a "my job is harder than your job" discussion?
My opinion, the guy flying IFR on the east coast has a harder job than the guy working the class D tower in bufu IL. Vice versa, the controller working somewhere on the east coast has it harder than some pilot going for the hundred dollar hamburger on a beautiful day.

Both are jobs that require high levels of concentration and training. Both jobs need to be conducted professionally at all times. Has ATC been unprofessional before? Yes. Have pilots been unprofessional before? Yes. Keep in mind, maybe the other person is having a bad day. On the other hand, there are those (on both sides of the radio) who are just a pain in the arse because they don't enjoy their job. It's a fact of any job. And everybody's job is more pleasant when the other people you talk to are pleasant. We don't have to like each other but we do have to work together.

Well Put........we should just leave it at that!

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

Ah, never mind. I agree with Flying Illini.

 

[comander]

Those guys chew people out for the simplest of mistakes. I've had them put us in "the penilty box" for missing one call. They are just grumpy a$$holes. It embarrasses me when they get really short with foreign carriers.

Exuse my ignorance what is a penilty box???? and what do you mean with they get really short with foreign carriers?? thanks

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

-ahem- The penalty does not exist.
But if it did exist it would be a section of concrete you placed an airplane in to await his or her clearance.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Just remember there boys, I can't turn on the autopilot when im on position and just sit there and monitor my ac like you do your instruments. Flying isn't what it used to be so dont sit there and act like your a 747-200 captain or driving a 727. The majority on here in the airlines are flying the newer regionals, the modern mainline stuff and all be it you best know your ac pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good, in all retrospect, your a glorified computere operator. Comments on here such as a 3 hour flight.......wow, thats tough, right after 1000ft the autopilot is on, the vnav/lnav are selected, the TCAS is chimming traffic for you so we know your not looking at the window and your FMS is telling you everything you want to know, you don't do anything anymore so you can stop with that crap. As for us, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, i get pissed off when a pilot doesn't listen, turns his radio down, completly jeopordizes the saftey of my other AC and violates FARS. You guys get pissy if we put you in a holding pattern for 2 mins all be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if we just let you go sideby into the bay. Cry me a river when you get an EDCT time. Maybe the NAS is so screwed up and we have those because there are too many flights flying at the same time. The FAA is hiring new people right now, they have class dates but many of them will wash out, and those that make it it will take 4 years to certify them due to the fact that there aren't enough controllers to train them. We work for an administrator who really doesn't care much about safety but more about budget cuts. I know controllers who work manditory six day work weeks due to understaffing, and they in turn once worn out on position apply more seperation then is needed, which inturn gets the sup's all pissed off because they aren't utilizing 100% capacity of the airspace and they get repremanded for doing so. Just remember there, its only gonna get worse. More controllers retire, and no one replaces them. Of course we are going to get pissy with you 21 year old F.O.s who think you know everything about this industry and don't have the big picture. Who question every control instruction we give and waste valuable radio time and elevate the stress of the controller. Just shut up, listen up and be polite, and im polite right back, be friendly, then im friendly, but day in and day out, twr execjet904 visual 32 in the most angry voice, execjet904 reduce speed to minimum safe approach speed, your overtaking a kingair ahead 2 miles, "IM flying this plane tower, blah blah blha...." And i love when a pilot makes a far deviation and you call him on it and he blames the controllers, good one.....smart.....Falcon900 hits the fbo the other day, and i finally get a hold of him on ground but he never called for a taxi clnce.....when iasked why he didn't call, tower never shipped him over, bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, i listened to the tape.....when i asked why he didn't stop and ask if he needed ground hence there were planes all over the place taxing and not one of them would be heard on his radio......He said tower was too busy to ask.....so i violated him for having an attitude. If your nice, we don't do anything, if your a dick, we do. The captain called and appologized for his fo but it was too late, RDO and FSDO already notified.

 

[zbwmy]

I knew this was gonna happen.

Buckel up everyone......it's going to get moderate!!!

 

[chperplt]

Lrjtcaptain,

You have some serious issues to deal with man. You don't think pilots can say the same things about controllers?

Why don't you relax a bit and try working together with us rather than having a bad attitude going in. Might make both our days a little easier.

 

[low-n-slow]

I knew this was gonna happen.

Buckel up everyone......it's going to get moderate!!!

Wow, trying to read that hurt my eyes, and I ain't nothing but a 'Farkken' ag pilot.

 

[PastFastMover]

Like I said earlier, two completely different jobs. If you want to be a major airline pilot then get qualified by whatever path you want. Fly in the military ( an extremely hard gig to get ) with resultant combat, fly in the corporate world ( a hard gig to get ), fly with the regionals after flight instructing ( a tough low paid road to hoe ). Once you have done one of the above then you are qualified to put in an application. If someone is actually hiring you "may" be considered if you are in the right economic cycle.

If you want to be a controller, get your degree or I believe you can meld it in with resultant work experience with years of service acting as credit hours. (I am sure I don't have this exactly right.) Pass the ATC specialist test. If the government thinks they need a few more controllers ( what that really means is the current system is totally understaffed and barely able to function due to lack of controllers) you put in your application and you may be considered.

Two completely different paths and two competely different jobs. Both difficult with each having their own hardships, difficulties, pro's and con's.

The ATC folks face the overbearing federal government on a constant basis, but if they hang in have a guraranteed paycheck (that keeps increasing because of the US Taxpayer) partly based on the part of the country they work in and and a tax payer paid retirement. The airline pilot is at the whim of incompetent management, deregulation, and the constant brutal battle of real competition. A paycheck that is generally going down irregardless of what part of the country you fly in, and a retirement that may or may not be there after working for multiple failed companies.

If you want either of these jobs, take your pick and go for it.

 

[chperplt]

It embarrasses me when they get really short with foreign carriers.

I was in JFK a few months back in line to depart off 13R. Lufthansa had landed 13L and had made the long taxi to his ramp. He was on the inner taxiway and needed ground to hold someone short of his ramp before he could get in. The ground controller told him to hold short and he would get him in when he could. 30 minutes later Lufthansa called ground back and was lambasted. Ground told him to maintain radio silence and he would get back to him when he had the time. 5 minutes later there was a gap and Lufthansa asked if he could proceed to the ramp. Ground started screaming at the guy and told him not to move and again maintain radio silence. The controller must have lost a relative during the war and didn't like Germans. It wasn't fun to listen to on the radio and the controller should have been disciplined.

It took us over an hour to get off the ground and Lufthansa was still holding short of the ramp when we left.

 

[Flying Illini]

I guess some 21 yr old know it all FO can be a pain in the butt...but so can a new controller who has screwed the pooch which results in an unnecessary inconvenience to the guys in the plane. But we all gotta learn, right? I'm based at an airport that has a tracon/tower that performs extensive controller training. *I* don't mind dealing with the new controllers b/c I understand that there is a serious learning curve to new jobs in our industry. It's fun to hear the same controller over the course of several months as they find their groove and get comfortable and the quality of their service increases and you hear their trainer break into the transmissions less and less.

I will relate an experience that just happened on Tuesday, going from KCMI-KDET. (disclaimer: I am not upset about this)
Over LYNTN intersection (near Put-In-Bay island in Lake Erie) we are told to slow to 180 kts (we fly up there a minimum of three times a week and normal is 250 or so till over Windsor, Ontario and then we slow accordingly, no restrictions on speed). So we slow down to 180. We fly about 10 miles like this (just a few miles over land now) and I queery ATC, "Are we following traffic to Detroit City?" (very politely) and he responds, "Yes, a single-engine commander, traffic at your 11 o clock 10 miles." The conversation that ensues in the cockpit is along the lines of why doesn't he just let us pass this traffic. We can be parked by the time this guy gets to the airport! But we say nothing and continue, if this guy wanted us in front, he probably would have put us there. 20 miles later, as we approach the Windsor airport, the controller again confirms that the commander is flying best forward speed to which the commander responds that he is flying as fast as possible. The controller then calls us and tells us to slow to final approach speed. So there we are, fully configured, 15 miles from the airport, 3000', waiting for this commander to get to the airport and land.
Anyway, this fiasco added just over 8 minutes to our normal flight time. No biggie, but an inconvenience. On the ground the commander pilot approached us and apologized for holding us up and said that he was honestly flying as fast as he could make it go. he also wondered why the contoller didn't just let us keep our speed up and pass him over lake Erie.
Again, no biggie, I think the controller realized his folly in handling us (both planes) the way he did. Hopefully he learned from it. I don't know if this was a new controller or not, but I had never heard his voice before and neither had the captain I was with.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ah, the joys of being paid by the hour....

 

[Flying Illini]

Ah, the joys of being paid by the hour....

Man, if that was the case do you think I would call it an "inconvenience?!

Of course, I never thought of it that way, maybe the controller thought he was doing us a favor by getting us a little more money for the flight. If that was the case, I guess I should say "thankyou" even though it didn't help us.

 

[SammyG]

He's HARDCORE.

Space Coast Regional has a crazy old guy

Yep. I once heard him yell out "DOES ANYBODY IN THE PATTERN HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING????"

Granted the pattern was a zoo that day and people were missing their calls...but it was kinda funny/scary hearing him blow his stack.

We left the pattern and went to play around in MLB at this point.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well, you gotta know us controllers need to vent too.....In the year and half I have been controlling I have witnessed at least 1000 pilot deviations but non pros and by pros. When ever I question them I usually get attitude and according to them us controllers are the reason for the violation, yeah, it was my fault a CL60 crossed the outer marker with a 280kt groundspeed even though the wind at 2000ft was calm. It was our fault, oh....and then our equipment was at fault, that was halarious. I play both sides, ive flown professionaly and I control professionaly. Im usually easy to get along with and I will accomidate almost anything but If you pilots would just appreciate some of the things we do for you then maybe we would all get along. Keep in mind pilots, the person on the other side of the radar is more then likely a type a personality. You get cocky pilots and cocky controllers and that is a bad situation. I work with the biggest bunch of idiots on a day to day basis and I work with the prof jet boys who are so miserable that you just can't make anybody friendly. So you bash us controllers, who are the most unproffesional??????

Well, then its my turn. USAIR pilots, Mesa Pilots, and anyone who flys for TAG, Options beechjet drivers, and alot of the Clay Lacy Lear drivers. Okay, im done.

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

I keep hearing this hiring controllers thing. Since when did we hire controllers? We hire people. We train people. We checkout controllers. Many won't make it.

 

[Flying Illini]

Ljtcaptain, I don't doubt that you have seen/heard some very unprofessional stuff from those of us in the aircraft. But, not from all of us, keep that in mind. You are painting with a broad brush. We're not all bad...we're not all good. You're not all bad...you're not all good.

IMHO, I don't view controllers as "them" and pilots as "us." That attitude just doesn't promote a good working environment and let's face it, we all work together...we just don't see each other's faces. This may sound corny but I'll say it anyway. When I do something good or help the controller out and he/she says thanks, I feel good. When a controller does a good job or an *incredible job* (the MDW tower controller this afternoon!) I will let him know when I make my last transmission to him. Hopefully it makes him feel good that his hard work was recognized just as it makes me feel good when I'm recognized.

My 2 cents.

...pilots aren't all bad!...