More like the world?

[Swass]

I like it, would take some commitment but that is expected. The beauty of it is that everyone is on the same team, no in-fighting or issues over scope and such. But that said, it would never work here due to union power and old boy networks.

 

[Iceman21]

The problem that I see with it is that these programs are all made up by countries that own their airline or only have one carrier.

If any of the US carriers were to do this they would have to fund a canidate for 36 months, and my question is where would the money come from?

 

[GogglesPisano]

I like our system better. If you don't make the first cut in one of these countries -- off to grad school for you, 'cause you ain't gonna be a pilot!


Our system is more expensive, but we have more opportunities.

 

[bart]

Good luck getting it past the guys with seniority at the majors.

 

[mar]

The traditional supply of pilots

While I kinda like the idea of a national seniority list I have to agree: It ain't gonna work here.

Those countries that use ab initio programs just don't have the supply from general aviation and military that the US does.

The airlines here don't have to recruit and train their own--so they don't. It's different in a smaller country.

However.

If air traffic congestion continues to increase;
and regulation of general aviation continues to increase;
and security restrictions continue on small airports;

then I envision (in 20-30 years) the death of the mom and pop flight schools and the advent of large training academies supervised and regulated by the government and airlines.

I'm not saying airline sponsered training but something like FlightSafety except that it's the only route to the airlines.

 

[Timebuilder]

why are we in the States not moving towards such things?

As mentioned above, perhaps we are moving in that direction. It is the path of a society that has strict controls based on government need and oversight.

In Russia during the cold war, you were singled out early for your life's work based on testing and observations made during your preschool and grammar years. If you were limber, lithe, and attractive, you might be steered towards gymnastics or skating. Maybe one out of several thousand would become an Olga Korbut.

I think the south african system, implemented here, would all but kill general aviation, as the pro pilot students would all be at the big aviation academies, already wearing identical sweaters bearing the logo of the carrier for whom they were training.

Mr Orwell, are you there?

 

[chrisdahut24]

On the surface such programs seem fantastic, and do have their pros. However, there are many cons. Like Gogglespisano said- don't make the cut, then your not gonna be a pilot! The selection process is absolutely brutal, and designed to screen the majority of the applicants out.

I applied to British Airway's pilot training scheme 4 years ago, and was called to take the preliminary tests. Those were not fun, and I did not do well at all. It had me upset for some time, until I later found out that out of about 16,000 applicants each year, only about 100 will actually go to training! So if we had a similar system take over completely here, you'd have about a 0.625% chance of becoming an airline pilot!

The current system here in the U.S. while expensive provides a lot more oppurtunity. The last thing we need to do is try to follow Europe on these matters

 

[bigsky]

While it seems nice to be in a free program and to start flying a 737 or airbus with almost no flight time our system has a lot more opportunity for those who work hard to earn their success- most of the systems I know of that do the cadet training hire only those children who have political or financial clout.

 

[WrightAvia]

then I envision (in 20-30 years) the death of the mom and pop flight schools

it's already happening.

 

[metrodriver]

Somebody wrote something about a national seniority list. Where did you get that idea from? There is no country as far as I know that has something like that, not even S. Africa. As a cadet for SAA you go work for a few other companies as a f/o, but these companies have their own seniority list. I know some guys that work for RossAir and they have no connection whatsoever with SAA. They got hired of the street and have only a RossAir s/n.

Wright Avia, you're absolutely right. Especially after the kneejerk reaction from the powers in DC after 9/11 and the insurance companies that now see everything that can come airborne as a major threat to their financial future

 

[WrightAvia]

Somebody wrote something about a national seniority list.

I can see unions and I could maybe see hiring from a union hall or trade union, like the construction guys do, but not a NATIONAL seniority list.

You'd have company A furloughing...so their guys would move over to company B and displace them into company C and on and on. Also it would allow no difference in company procedures or policies and the bargaining power of employees would be stymied at profitable airlines, while guys that were slacking would get paid just as well as everybody else.

During the height of the furloughs, some bottom seniority major airline guy that had just been or was looking at being furloughed, suggested that all airlines should be NATIONALIZED and subsidized by the government (IE: the tax payer) so they could continue to fly and get their checks. I kind of had issue with that, as the budget crunch was just starting to be apparent with states declaring empty coffers and companies laying off in droves (IE: shrinking tax base). I also had an issue with this idea of nationalizing and subsidizing, because even though airlines are transportation, they are private companies with share holders and greedy corporate execs.

I don't have a problem with unions. I may not have a problem with system of "union hall" hiring type practices at airlines. But I see a problem with a NATIONAL seniority list and government subsidization.

Another problem with a national seniority list...hope you like moving. Cause any time there were changes, you'd be moving!

Also...why add ALL the pilots in the U.S. to the TOP of YOUR seniority list? You can do much better on your own...upgrades are based on the growth of one particular airline, hopefully the one you sought out to work for. You add the whole list of all pilots in the U.S. up and put them infront of you...you may never see more than government regulated FO pay.

This would only benefit the most senior, limit flexibility and growth with the airlines themselves and eliminate any variety or choice in your own future.

 

[jergar999]

Compare crash statistics of U.S. versus foreign airlines. I think we produce a better end product.

 

[enigma]

What is the ratio of pilots to pilot jobs in South Africa and Singapore?

I don't know, but I suspect that very few pilots exist in those countrys.

regards,
enigma