More Layoffs at the Best Fractional

[jehtplane]

What an admission...:erm: That does rather answer my "why?" question. And seems short-sighted to me. So you wouldn't like your pilotgroup to be partners with the company the way the NJ pilots are? Sadly for the furloughed CS pilots, things might have been different if you guys were. Things are always a matter of perspective and I can't help but wonder if your opinions would be different if you were one of the furloughed pilots. NJW

Well I am a furloughed CS pilot, I also spent 10 years at the airlines prior to CS. Have been apart of 3 different unions. Spent 5 years of contract negotiations with one, 3 with another, and the last one is going on 6 years of negotiations. CS has treated us very fairly. They did not have to give us 2 months of pay, they did not have to give us unlimited recall rights, and they did not have to communicate anything with us, but they did. CS is a great company that is having some struggles, like every other company. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones and whats good for one company may not be good for another. I am glad everything is rosey at NJ's, good for you, your sympathy for the CS employees, thats great too, Now respectfully I would suggest that you stick to what you know best, and that is what you think is best for NJ's. Unions are not always the answer, CS is not NJ's and NJ's is not CS. That is great that your union and your management team are partners. Your company was founded 45 years ago, CS is 9 years old, I think we will be OK.

 

[Crobar]

Well I am a furloughed CS pilot, I also spent 10 years at the airlines prior to CS. Have been apart of 3 different unions. Spent 5 years of contract negotiations with one, 3 with another, and the last one is going on 6 years of negotiations. CS has treated us very fairly. They did not have to give us 2 months of pay, they did not have to give us unlimited recall rights, and they did not have to communicate anything with us, but they did. CS is a great company that is having some struggles, like every other company. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones and whats good for one company may not be good for another. I am glad everything is rosey at NJ's, good for you, your sympathy for the CS employees, thats great too, Now respectfully I would suggest that you stick to what you know best, and that is what you think is best for NJ's. Unions are not always the answer, CS is not NJ's and NJ's is not CS. That is great that your union and your management team are partners. Your company was founded 45 years ago, CS is 9 years old, I think we will be OK.

If it wasn't for Netjets union your management could've given you ten months pay instead of just two.. it would've worked out to the same sum

 

[brokeflyer]

the problem isnt the union, or lack of one. The problem is the need for a union in the first place.

Management needs to pay it's pilots, period.

 

[ozpilot]

the problem isnt the union, or lack of one. The problem is the need for a union in the first place.

Yep, Yep. Well said.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yawn.....

What an admission...:erm: That does rather answer my "why?" question. And seems short-sighted to me. So you wouldn't like your pilotgroup to be partners with the company the way the NJ pilots are? Sadly for the furloughed CS pilots, things might have been different if you guys were. Things are always a matter of perspective and I can't help but wonder if your opinions would be different if you were one of the furloughed pilots. NJW

Yawn.....

Maybe it's because he understands that NJ is footing the bill for all these golden parachutes the union pilots have gotten, and he realizes the reality that all these golden parachutes are expensive, and in the long run all this is going to come around to roost.

For 3 years I've said that the CBA was too expensive and was going to cost pilots their jobs. Now, NJ is throwing money out the window in "good faith" when they could have just as easily furloughed.

It's an incredible gamble, but still a very expensive one. Give it time, let's see how the bottom line continues to fare. If the massive losses continue, the greedy "industry leading" CBA will prove to be the failure I said it would be to the company and its employees. I've said repeatedly that the bar was set too high and set unreasonable expectations within the industry.

The only perspective is one where the furloughed non-union pilot has the potential for a faster financial turnaround than the one that is paying a bunch of pilots to stay away with golden parachutes and not work. It's obvious which company has the potential for a quicker turnaround, and it's not NJ.

 

[B19 Flyer]

the problem isnt the union, or lack of one. The problem is the need for a union in the first place.

Management needs to pay it's pilots, period.

And pilots need to fly to earn their pay. Unions hate golden parachutes, but are willing to give them to their own. Sad. Industry leading contract my butt... industry killing contract is more like it.

 

[Crobar]

And pilots need to fly to earn their pay. Unions hate golden parachutes, but are willing to give them to their own. Sad. Industry leading contract my butt... industry killing contract is more like it.

This fuknut idiot is goin on my ignore list, what a tard, has absolutely no clue the responsibility a pilot has, we don't make enough money with the cba

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

He is back and in true form.

Ladies and Gentlemen, he's back..........he's returned from under the rock he has crawled..........he's finally made that long awaited comment...........as always, he spoke from the only orifice he knows best; his azz........he hasn't failed to let us down.............yes, he's back and true to from hoping another's failure surpasses his own shortcomings.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you B19.

A very large percentage of us here don't wish ill will towards anyone else because they work for another company. That's because that ill will could happen or has happened to many of us. No one has a crystal ball to know that in five years company XYZ will tank or ABC will furlough. B19's constant "predictions" about how NJA will fall upon hard times is sad and reflects his true feelings about NJA and its ENTIRE workforce.

It is very easy to hid behind a fictitious ID and blast away with guess work, half-witted facts and partial knowledge. By the way, you do that very well. Some reps from CS, FLEX or FLOPS have told others who don't work for them to get their facts straight before speaking or don't speak at all. I would really enjoy the opportunity to sit and have a face-to-face with a.k.a B19. I would really like to know about the "golden parachutes" he speaks of. What a cool union to have such a money earning mechanism in place for those who step up and run for office in the union. Maybe NetJet Wife could tell us how she is spending her huband's golden parachute. NJA Wife, sorry to blow your cover, but B19 has caused me to ask. Maybe she has gone out and bought another pair of sexy boots to spark the spanking excitement when he's not in CMH.

Since B19 lacks the courage to man-up and mention what company he works for speaks volumes of this individual. I (like a large number of us) would like to know his background and what he really does as a job.
But unlike a large number of us here; I'll be blocking this individual. This way I won't have the desire to write a response to this individual. Because that what he truly is and will always be; an individual.

I suggest and encourage ALL of us that use the Fractional Forum to block him and then none of us will be tempted to write and feed his low self-esteem.

 

[brokeflyer]

B19, although I admire your loyalties to management, face it, you/skanza lost.

we won. only sad part is we still aren't paid enough for doing all the work.

But, since you asked for a union, dont blame us.

p.s. Im not gonna block him, I like to prove him worng. I've b1tch slapped managers a lot tougher than him many times before....

 

[BeeDubya]

Maybe it's because he understands that NJ is footing the bill for all these golden parachutes the union pilots have gotten, and he realizes the reality that all these golden parachutes are expensive, and in the long run all this is going to come around to roost.

Clearly, your use of "golden parachute" is unconventional at best, if not wholly inaccurate. Here' are links that give more complete definitions: http://www.answers.com/topic/golden-parachute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_parachute.

An objection that Unions have to "golden parachutes" is that they disproportionately benefit senior executives with little or no benefit to anyone else. (By definition, they are part of an executive's employment contract.) Of course, that is not what happened at NetJets. The Voluntary Measures were offered to all employee groups, bargaining and non-bargaining alike. The company made substantially similar offers thoughout the company and across job classifications, no one group was disproportionately benefited nor excluded.

It sounds from your rants that you are not only anti-Union, but basically anti-NetJets. Since substantially similar Voluntary Measures were offered to all employee groups (Unionized and non-Union, alike), and you clearly believe those were unwise offers, the onus falls squarely on NetJets management. Obviously, as a manager, you would have made different choices. However, I believe they made the right choice to do right by their employees.

Fraternally,
Brian

 

[fischman]

Wow. B19, do you actually believe that dribble? Are you really that heartless? Or is that just flame bait?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Wow. B19, do you actually believe that dribble? Are you really that heartless? Or is that just flame bait?

C'mon Fisch. How long have you been reading his piffle?

 

[jppt2000]

And pilots need to fly to earn their pay. Unions hate golden parachutes, but are willing to give them to their own. Sad. Industry leading contract my butt... industry killing contract is more like it.

Spoken like a phony, self-appointed, voice of fractional pilots.
B19/skanza does not speak for me and I would bet a HUGE number of fractional "industry" pilots too.
Where does B19/skanza get the pulse of the industry, maybe his greedy masters?

 

[brokeflyer]

i love it......b19"what happens when the union refuses to open up the industry leading contract? NJ will fold because the contract is too expensive"


that is really funny after seeing the current events.

btw, the contract isnt too expensive...we do all the work so we have some negotiating to do.

b19 i told you many times before its sad that we have to have a union....only YOU can change that. Complaining to us and making up a lotta crap isnt gonna do it. You asked for the union you get. If you wanna change it then you are the only one who can.

so what's the next bull$hit prediction you gonna try now? Golden parachute? HAHAHA that is only for MANAGEMENT....but i've been trying though.

 

[netjetwife]

Ladies and Gentlemen, he's back..........he's returned from under the rock he has crawled..........
As fudspinners will do; that's why I wear boots... We're probably being unfair to snakes in our facetious comparison. A 4 ft bullsnake crawled thru my family's campsite without subjecting us to any harassment.

A very large percentage of us here don't wish ill will towards anyone else ... That's because that ill will could happen or has happened to many of us. .. B19's constant "predictions" about how NJA will fall upon hard times ...reflects his true feelings about NJA and its ENTIRE workforce. Well said! Perhaps the better analogy is that of a vulture.

I would really like to know about the "golden parachutes" he speaks of. What a cool union to have such a money earning mechanism in place for those who step up and run for office in the union. Maybe NetJet Wife could tell us how she is spending her huband's golden parachute. I have B19 on ignore so I'm not sure what he's claiming, but it's probably more FUD. The only thing that comes remotely close is the early out offer (an accepted business practice that saves money) NJA made to all employees. The generosity was more in their attitude as the $ was far less than executives get in a typical gp and my family isn't in the financial position to take it. NJA Wife, sorry to blow your cover, but B19 has caused me to ask. No problem. I think furlough mitigation packages are a good idea worth promoting. I'd like to see them offered at other fracs and hope that the process will be repeated as needed at NJ. Maybe she has gone out and bought another pair of sexy boots to spark the spanking excitement when he's not in CMH. I like boots so I already own several that would make a fun avatar; we just haven't gotten around to it yet. I think my red ones would work well for a Stop FUD campaign.

Since B19 lacks the courage to man-up and mention what company he works for speaks volumes of this individual. I (like a large number of us) would like to know his background and what he really does as a job. That info is supplied routinely here to establish credibility and to better explain one's perspective when posting. That B19 rejects that common courtesy is indicative of both a hidden agenda and an open disrespect for pilots and their spouses.

But unlike a large number of us here; I'll be blocking this individual. Actually, I think quite a few of us already have him on ignore. ...
I suggest and encourage ALL of us that use the Fractional Forum to block him and then none of us will be tempted to write and feed his low self-esteem.

This suggestion was made in the past after B19 repeatedly refused to answer normal questions about his connection to the frac community. Listening to his desperate used car salesman like monologues quickly got old so a number of us tuned him out just as one does with TV commercials. I echo your encouragement because I find no value in his FUD-filled posts and see nothing but contempt for others in his unwarranted personal attacks. NJW